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05 February 2009 @ 03:06 pm
Lost 5x04 The Little Prince review  
/exam #1: done. Not my most brilliant performance but I wasn't feeling too good and I didn't even care, done is done as Sawyer says.

Lost: uhm, did anyone hear me scream about one hour ago? *sigh* And it's not that I didn't like it. I just have a FEW major quibbles here. Just saying.

Team dear Locke, you kinda blew that up.

1. First thing: dear writers, when Claire gave birth to Aaron, there wasn't only Kate present. There were also Charlie and Jin present and no, I'm not remembering wrong. If you need to screw around with Do No Harm, do it properly.

2. Second thing: with ALL the times they can flash back to, they flash back to DO NO HARM??? *shriekes* I just... gah, I can't take it. As soon as Claire started screaming I could only think about what was happening MEANWHILE and yeah, right, like I could give a damn about the birth or Aaron or Kate blathering about the child being everyone's or whatever. The only thing that kept me from raging at the screen right then was Sawyer back there because just.. God. Seriously. *hugs him* Also, thanks for having shown the hatch, Claire and NOT the caves. Yeah, because at least I'd have, you know, seen the guy instead of... whatever. And yes, I have issues with Do No Harm and the birth part of it and yes, I'm not over it.

3. Third thing: sorry for the length. Quoting from the transcript here because if I hear it again I'll scream. Also, YAY for the name mention! Hey, probably more than I'll get.

LOCKE: The night that Boone died... I went out there and started pounding on it as hard as I could. I was... confused... scared. Babbling like an idiot, asking, why was all this happening to me?

SAWYER: Did you get an answer?

LOCKE: Light came on, shot up into the sky. At the time, I thought it meant something.

SAWYER: Did it?

LOCKE: No. It was just a light.

SAWYER: So why'd you turn us around then? Don't you wanna go back there?

LOCKE: Why would I wanna do that?

SAWYER: So you could tell yourself to do things different, save yourself a world of pain.

LOCKE: No, I needed that pain to get to where I am now.

One: no, Locke, it wasn't just happening to YOU. Also, no one asked you to deliberately lie about the circumstances. Two: okay, so the fact that you basically saved Desmond's life which is pretty much the only good thing coming out of Boone dying means nothing. Great. Three: YOU NEEDED THAT PAIN? Well, I did NOT, I doubt anyone else did and you didn't seem so fine with it at least until S2. And thankfully as elliotsmelliot said they spared me the bloody shirt. Just... no. That's not it. I can't believe he said he needed it to get where he is now (which implies he has to die, too. Wow). I'm... well. That was it. Dear Locke, you managed to lose any point you might have gained with me since The Brig, which was the lowest. If it wasn't for Terry O' Quinn being too good at what he does I'd probably be even less nice, but doesn't change that I am thoroughly not happy with this. Fuck off. Really. *goes crying in a corner and tries to plot up some fic to deal with this*

Sorry for the extra rant but I just can't take it.


4. I was really hoping it was Claire's mother asking for the blood sample... *sigh*

5. No one, no one is ever convincing me that Kate was sincere when she told Jack all that stuff in the beginning. No-one. And I've always been with you? WTF? If someone tells me she lied there too so that she wouldn't go to prison okay, but I'm so NOT buying that. Blah. Kate this episode? I totally could have done without.

6. Ben -> 'he's not your son'. And for the first time I'll nod along and say, THANK YOU BECAUSE WE'RE SICK OF IT. And everybody knows how I feel about Ben.

7. Someone write that kid off that show NOW. I seriously... blah. I can't stand the kid's face or voice or anything. Also, if I think about when he was born... yeah. Oh, don't get me started.

8. Not that it wasn't good for the plot but... I... don't care. Just... don't care.

9. Also, the whole Jack/Kate stuff -> bleah. Just bleah. Just... yes, I can't stomach it. God. I think I need to write Jack/Sawyer.


10. Dear Sayid, I love you. I just... you're so awesome. You, your hair, the fact that you'll be a total badass even if you're out of a two-days coma, being all lovely around Jack, driving and whatever. God, yes. I love that man.

11. OMG JACK. You're hot. And you're so still taking some pills or something because seriously, that's absolutely not withdrawal. Apart from the fact that he drank, too, so he should be even worse than if he was in Oxycodone withdrawal only.

12. Anyway, until they go back on the island I'm totally shipping Jack/Sayid.

13. Hurley is just too awesome.

14. And yes, I do realize that me squeeing over Jack and being bitchy to Kate isn't exactly fair but I never said I was.

15. Mm, I'm liking Sun. I can't wait to see what's she up to, especially since she got herself a nice hostage there *cough*. Kate surely knows when she has to trust people.

Team yay nosebleeds and angst all together!!

16. I like that Charlotte isn't dead. And mm, does Miles' nosebleeds mean that he's born there, too?

17. Aw, Sawyer. I just... can I hug him or something? Also, Josh was great this round.

18. And I love that he told Juliet and not Locke *smirk*. Uhm, I don't really know how I feel about the issue. I love them being just friends and I don't exactly want them to hook up because then when Jack and Kate are back there'd be quite the mess and I wouldn't want Juliet to get tossed out, but then again, I guess I wouldn't tear up my hair if they jumped each other. *sigh* Ah well, we'll see how it goes.

Team La vie en rose

19. Okay, I'm the only one or Rousseau's team was made of pretty hot men? Well, apart from the fact that they spoke French and only hearing someone speaking French sends me over the edge, but Robert and Montand especially were very, very pretty. Robert especially. And while young Danielle doesn't exactly look like Mira Furlan she was very nice and well, yay Danielle indeed.

20. JIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ Well, okay, I knew he was alive and was coming back, but still. JIN!!!

I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff (like, who the fuck was shooting team Locke at one point?), but whatever. Surely the one I liked least until now even if Jin, Rousseau and Sayid completely made up for it. I'd have probably liked it better if it hadn't pissed me off like it did in the first twenty minutes. Even if I guess that at least they remember that dead people existed since there was pretty much the greatest hits naming at one point. *rolls eyes* Anyway, unless something exceptional happens, I'm going to stay angry at Locke for a good, good time.

Also, thankfully while it was about Aaron it didn't feature the kid much. At least. *sigh* But... aw, damn.

*goes back sniffing in the corner*

Okay. I'll be off catching with entries, comments and whatnot.
feeling: irateor something close to it
alemyrddin: Jack Sawyer hugalemyrddin on February 5th, 2009 02:29 pm (UTC)
dai, un altro esame è fatto! Anche se non è andato al massimo, congratulazioni cmq!

1. My idea is that Sawyer couldn't see them from where he was. They were a little further, because they realy weren't helping with the baby, just sitting around. At least, that's my explanation.

2. I know! They keep flashing back to that! Sorry it was painful for you.

5/7. I agree with everything you said. I'm also probably angrier at Kate.

9. Please, yes, write some J/S (although I still have to read your nanowrimo fic.. but an update on the amnesia one would be wonderful!)

10/11. *nods along* Jack looked tired though - that's how the writers are hinting at withdrawal. Very realisitic, don't you think? /sarcasm

14. Life isn't fair. ;)

15. Hostage! That's a good word. At least I don't have to call him Aaron! ;)

16. Someone suggested Miles could be Candle's son. That would be interesting. Also, growing up on the island could explain his powers.

17. I want to hug him too, though I found a few scenes a little weird. But it wasn't Josh' fault.

18. LOL. I expressed more or less the same sentiment. I mean, they would be great together, but I am sure the writers would mess that up. At the same time, it would be a pretty sight!
I loved that he told her, and how she reacted. Those two are really good together.

19.well yes, very pretty!

20. I wasn't so sure, and I was so happy to see him! :)

About the shooting on the canoe, I agree with what elliotsmelliot said: since we didn't see their faces, they are bound to be someone we know. Possibly the O6 coming back to the island.
the female ghost of tom joad: lost jack/sawyer ♥janie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 02:37 pm (UTC)
No infatti, ma non mi lamento per niente considerando che dei due prima di me uno l'hanno bocciato e l'altro l'ha mandato via con venti... poteva andare meglio ma neanche me ne importava più di tanto ;) grazie!

1. That has to be it, even if I'm sure they were all over the place, Charlie at least. Well, guess they couldn't call Dominic Monaghan for that, even if at this point they could have used S1 footage.

2. I know. *sigh* I probably should deal with it but it just pisses me off.

5. I probably would be angrier at her if Locke hadn't got most of my anger for this round. ;) ;)

9. God, I think I need to. And I was planning on getting back on the amnesia so maybe this evening... ;) also they don't hook up until the last part with the nanowrimo one so I think I need to turn to something else.

10/11. Very. Oh, yes. Either he's got a secret stash of pills or.. ah, well.

14. Indeed. ;)

15. He's HOSTAGE from now!!!

16. I think it could be, even if now they should explain me how come he doesn't remember.

17. No, if they were weird it definitely wasn't his fault. He had such great acting.

18. Yes, that's probably it. They're good together but it'd get screwed up and I don't want it.

19. Glad you agree! ;)

20. I was spoiled, too. ;)

Uhm, that's a good option. And wow, they go back and shoot the ones they went back for? That's quite the twist...
inthekeyofd: Sawyer-dimples-mediocrechickinthekeyofd on February 5th, 2009 03:13 pm (UTC)
Team La vie en rose..MOST EXCELLENT..and damn, DAMN those are some hot freakin' men, seriously, HOTNESS.

I love Sawyer, LOVE HIM, he's always be my favorite and I love Jack too, I hate HATE HATE Kate, so I've never ever had a problem with people being cool about Jack and Sawyer and knocking Kate at the same time.

Loved that Ben put her in her place too..earth to kate, you are NOT his mother..plus, was it just me or was he eating scrambled eggs and french fries for lunch or whatever..yeah, great comination there, mom.

locke..oh Locke, honestly, how they've all pretty much forgotten how he totally basically killed Boone for the island and his ability to walk again is beyond me..happening to him, what about what was happening to Boone at the very moment you were pounding on that fucking hatch.

I didn't remember Jin being with Claire, I thought she was still with Jack tending to Boone at the time. I can't remember that scene, maybe because I was so traumatized by Boone's death and Jack's emo, but I do DO remember that years ago, I kept saying that was Sawyer holding him back from bitch slapping Locke and no one believed me...said I was wrong and begrudgingly had to admit it the day after it aired. And I still say that it should have been Sun comforting him that next day, not kate, sun was there, watching it all, not Kate.
the female ghost of tom joad: lost locke huge mistakejanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 03:21 pm (UTC)
honestly, how they've all pretty much forgotten how he totally basically killed Boone for the island and his ability to walk again is beyond me..happening to him, what about what was happening to Boone at the very moment you were pounding on that fucking hatch.

YES. YES, THAT'S IT. That's exactly what makes me pissed off, even if I'm only pissed off with HIM. The point is that they know he lied and Jack was the only one sure of it with Shannon, but it's not like Locke actually told anyone about the whole walking again deal. I just... blah. Gets me so pissed off.

Jin was with Claire and Charlie, basically Sun sent him back there telling him what Jack said he should have done. I have sadly watched that episode too many times. *sigh* And well, it kind of was Sawyer holding him back from bitch slapping Locke, it was him and Charlie actually. ;) And I still say that regarding Sun, too. Kate. What the hell. She also wanted Jack to go there, like he could. *sigh*

LOL, Katre surely doesn't know how to feed kids properly. And totally word on Jack and Sawyer. Well, Jack after Do No Harm has the free pass with me but ha, I'll always be on team Jack.

And team la vie en rose is HOT indeed.
M: wild blue [lost]_chica02 on February 5th, 2009 04:07 pm (UTC)
2. I can't believe I didn't notice that they cut Jin and Charlie out! I was too busy rolling my eyes and telling Sawyer to get over the emo queen. Heh.

5. Ugh, SERIOUSLY. God, I can't stand Kate. I don't hate Aaron though. I feel bad for the poor thing. :(

18. I totally agree. The S/J talk was great. But if Sawyer's going to still be hung up over the emo queen then I'd rather he stayed the hell away from Juliet. Last thing she needs is to be second to what's-her-face yet again.

19-20. JIN! DANIELLE! ;D

My least fave so far this season too. But I knew it would be when I found out that it was Kate-centric. Oy,
the female ghost of tom joad: lost sawyer julietjanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 06:01 pm (UTC)
LOL poor Sawyer. He needs to get over her asap. And ha, well, that's kind of the most touchy Lost subject you can bring up with me so I kind of noticed that for first thing, but it was also good because it distracted me from screaming out loud.

5. I'd feel bad for the poor thing too, but that child.... aaargh. I wouldn't say that he's miscast because the looks are fine, but I just... as soon as he speaks I dread the idea of having children. Which sounds horrible and I know it is, but at least if they chose a nicer kid maybe I'd actually feel bad for him. And Kate? *shakes head* Just be over with this story already.

18. Last thing she needs is to be second to what's-her-face yet again.

That's why I don't want them to hook up. I mean, I'd like it if they did and I'd actually think they'd do the right thing, but if then she has to be the second best again and get tossed out again while Kate is still the one those two fight over with then I don't want it to happen.

19/20. INDEED!!

I knew it would be when I found out that it was Kate-centric. Oy,

LOL, you never go wrong with it. ;) The only one I liked which was Kate centric was probably Left Behind apart from the first S1 one.
Lou: lost - sawyer >:(gottalovev on February 5th, 2009 04:20 pm (UTC)
sorry that scene bothered you so much. truly when I heard Locke say "why was all this happening to me?" I though of you and could honestly hear you sputtering with rage!

I didn't catch who was who in the French crew, but I am glad we agree on the prettiness! lol! that island really attracts hotties, doesn't it? well except for the Dharma gang.

I have no idea who was shooting at team locke either. wonder if we'll ever know at this point!
the female ghost of tom joad: INDEEDjanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 05:57 pm (UTC)
LOL, I was totally fuming up with rage. God, it just rubbed on me in the worst way, and all while I try to like Locke for four seasons. I think I'm done with him but still, they only missed the bloody shirt and then I'd have flipped out. ;) ♥

We agree indeed! I looked at IMDB and looks like one of the French people is Italian actually. Or at least the name is. But yeah, they all were pretty hot! The island surely attracts them nice, except for the Dharma people.

I like that theory that it's the O6 being back, even if I wouldn't know how or why they'd go on a boat like that... but who knows.
Janice: lost s5 picjaydblu on February 5th, 2009 04:24 pm (UTC)
First of all, I want to soothe you because of, well, you know #2 and #3.
I agree about Kate, I just don't understand her at all. She's a murderer and all that, but then she tries to get righteous about stuff, and that just kills me. Please.
There was a nice bit of Sayid and Jack pretty, I agree! Perhaps Ben gave Jack island magic pills to make him bounce back so nicely. And Sayid's like, "done with my nap, time to shoot somebody again." Really, I love him. So much.
The Jin (he's alive!!!) and Danielle thing at the end totally surprised me. That was pretty cool!
I wasn't like totally bowled over with this episode, but really, the show is so good that even this was really still good.
the female ghost of tom joad: lost -> generaljanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 05:51 pm (UTC)
Thanks, that's really so appreciated. ♥ God, not only no ghost appearances since S3, now they need to do this to me? They're cruel.

I gave up on understanding Kate ages ago but this round she just sounded completely OOC. Which is stupid because while I could never stand her, at least she was coherent. Ah well.

Ben gave Jack island magic pills to make him bounce back so nicely. And Sayid's like, "done with my nap, time to shoot somebody again." Really, I love him. So much.

LOL, I totally wanted to say that about Sayid then forgot. He looked like he was just chilling out on that bed, not like he was out of a coma. Ah, Sayid, I love you seriously. And LOL at the magic island pills. Ben, don't go back and start selling them, they'll make you rich.

JIN!! Well, I knew he was going to turn up alive this episode (spoiled!), but I didn't get that it would have been Danielle rescuing him.

I wasn't too much either but overall I liked it. If it wasn't for the Locke thing which I know I won't stomach for a while *sigh*.
elliotsmelliot: Sayid tarpelliotsmelliot on February 5th, 2009 04:57 pm (UTC)
.At least your exam is over. I’m sure you did fine. Will you get a vacation soon so you can rest up?

Jack doesn't need a twelve step program. He only needs one step -- shaving. Next he will move to Baltimore and advise Bubs to grow a beard and then shave it, and all will be well.

Thankfully we got Jin and Danielle to compensate for Locke and Kate's self centred behaviour. I was seriously feeling for you in that beam of light scene.

It's a sad day with the moustache twirling villain makes the most sense. God bless Ben for the 'not your son' reminder.

Poor Aaron. I bet he would have been a luckier kid if Claire and Charlie were the ones raising him. But yeah, he needs to go soon
the female ghost of tom joad: lost jack/boonejanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 05:48 pm (UTC)
Thanks ♥. Well, it went fine enough, nothing to say. I just could have done better but I'm not complaining. Especially because the guy wasn't too kind with the two people before me and I wouldn't have wanted to do it again. I'm having another one next week, then two weeks, then the last one and then I'm done with the term, but next week's is just revising so it should be less stressful.

Next he will move to Baltimore and advise Bubs to grow a beard and then shave it, and all will be well.

LOL! And me, wondering about crossover possibilities, thinking that I could write a thing where Charlie ended up in Baltimore at that Steve Earle lecture. Clearly Jack needs to go there too and give his own version of the facts.

Yeah, Jin and Danielle were definitely worth it. Thankfully. And ♥ ♥ ♥. Seriously, I was losing it at the beam.

Seriously, for the Quill interview re the question with the dialogue exchange (by the way, I'm sending it over this weekend) I had Ben as my least favorite character but I'm seriously reconsidering it in the light of that reminder. ;) ;)

I bet he would have been a luckier kid if Claire and Charlie were the ones raising him. But yeah, he needs to go soon

Really. I feel horrible ranting at a three year old kid but that storyline is just so wrong that I can't like it, and I can't stand the casting. I really wish it had been Charlie and Claire. *sigh*
etpmvempetpmvemp on February 5th, 2009 05:13 pm (UTC)
I hope you have left your corner now! If it helps at all, I completely agree with you on Kate and Birthing scene. And no one (me included) seems to like the baby for some reason... I wonder why...

Sayid is.... I don't know, that guy leaves me speechless. *Deep sigh*.

By the way, I though Hurley was very cute, sounding so happy to be in prison!

I was expecting it of course, but I am very glad Jin and Rousseau are back, Rousseau especially. I think she was my favorite female character. Apparently, no one will stay dead on that island.
the female ghost of tom joad: lost rousseau winsjanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 05:41 pm (UTC)
LOL yes I did. I'm still completely pissed off with it but the raging madness phase is done with. ;)

Probably because the baby is such a plot failure that no one likes it. I mean. Seriously.

MM, SAYID. God. If Desmond doesn't do something soon Sayid will probably go back to current #1 position which he was holding in S2 when Desmond still wasn't in the picture. God, I love him.

Hurley was the cutest thing! I just doubt he'll be in prison for longer.

I think she was my favorite female character. Apparently, no one will stay dead on that island.

YOU TOO? *high fives* Rousseau totally was my main girl. I always liked her better than any other female really.
Stephanie: LOST. Jawyer; warped definitionslybrunette on February 5th, 2009 05:21 pm (UTC)
1) So I wasn't the only one a tad ticked off? Good job writers.

2) Why'd it have to be that scene? Anything but the birth scene (yes, I'm three, and it squicks me that he stood there watching)

Also, *pets*

I want the Kate storyline, Aaron, and all of it to just GO AWAY. Seriously. I can't stand it either.
the female ghost of tom joad: lost jack/sawyerjanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 05:39 pm (UTC)
1) No, I'm totally with you here. If there's anything that will make me angrier than referencing Do No Harm is referencing it and doing it wrong.

2) Yes, that exactly. And *hugs*. Seriously, I hate birth scenes but that one is exactly the one I just can't watch.

GOD, INDEED. GO AWAY *sigh*. Please let that kid shrink away into nothingness when they go back because of the time traveling or something, change him, do whatever you want but I can't stand it.
falafel_musings: Lost 1falafel_musings on February 5th, 2009 05:25 pm (UTC)
Good Locke rant! *applauds*

Yes, of course...who would want to change a 22 year old boy suffering a long painful death by internal bleeding. It's all part of Locke's magical island experience after all. At least he didn't use the "sacrifice the island demanded" line again.
the female ghost of tom joad: INDEEDjanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 05:35 pm (UTC)
Ha, thanks! I never ranted at Locke that way but I think I lost my patience. I've been giving him chances since four seasons, I'm just done.

.who would want to change a 22 year old boy suffering a long painful death by internal bleeding.

Not me indeed. Well, he needed that pain *rolls eyes* I don't know which was the worst line, this one or the sacrifice one, but if he had said that, too, I'd have been even more pissed off. Seriously. *sigh* *accepts the applauses*
falafel_musingsfalafel_musings on February 5th, 2009 07:35 pm (UTC)
At least Locke didn't name his baby Boone to celebrate the wonderful experience of his pain and other peoples. *has issues of my own*
the female ghost of tom joad: tangerinesjanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 08:07 pm (UTC)
LOL well now I'd like to know who was the mother though. ;) ;) The island? (and no, I'm not writing crack fic on that... I know it's therapeutic but I think I won't get over that much soon.

Re what you said, I can see what issues you'd have with it. I'm still not completely clear regarding how I feel about it and if it's all they say about the issue then I won't like it much, but I still think it wasn't a bad move and that at least it shows that there's some recognition. I was prepared to hate the whole thing but strangely it didn't rub on me the wrong way for once. I'm still wanting to see more from Desmond about it but since I gave Locke the benefit of the doubt for three seasons I'll just hold judgment for another while.
etpmvempetpmvemp on February 5th, 2009 06:31 pm (UTC)
I absolutely agree.
Seriously, when Locke said that he needed that to be what he is now, all I could think was "So, he thinks he's good, where he is now?" This man's ego is huge!
the female ghost of tom joad: tangerinesjanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 07:25 pm (UTC)
Yeah, like, is that GOOD? I mean. Whatever. I'm done giving him second chances, that was it. ;)
etpmvempetpmvemp on February 5th, 2009 07:31 pm (UTC)
The thing is, Ben I like. He is a cold, calculating, manipulating bastard, and I respect that (I was wondering about that fact that you don't like him, I mean you do read Machiavelli, don't you?) . At least you know where you stand with him: just assume he is lying and always has some ulterior motive, and you are going to be fine. But Locke is supposed to be a good guy, and I find that very hard to accept.
the female ghost of tom joad: lost lockejanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 07:37 pm (UTC)
You do have a point here. What I don't like about Ben mostly is that they overplay the guy, I've never understood why he became so central when he wasn't even conceived until the end of S2 anyway and I'm still pissed about the way they killed Alex and Danielle off just because they need to move his storyline forward that way. Also, I just can't trust him and he creeps me out, but you're totally right. I'm re-evaluating him for what he is lately (and lol yes I like Machiavelli alright, he'd have probably approved of the guy's attitude!), but especially the Alex/Danielle issue makes me want to shake my fist at the guy. I have a hard time dealing with Locke because I really used to like him, but at this point I'm done. I don't even care anymore. I had half-started liking him again some lately but after this one I just can't accept it, too.

Fuck, I'm sticking with Richard from now on.
Zelda: Miles in a Hoodiezelda_zee on February 5th, 2009 06:31 pm (UTC)
I pretty much agree with you about most of this. Overall, I found this to be a frustrating episode. There was just so much that seemed poorly written - the whole Kate thing - that is, everything about Kate in this ep was just wrong. Locke being so blithe about Boone's death, Sawyer's characterization, Jack/Kate - I could go on. I'd like to just not care a bit about it, but it does make for a frustrating viewing experience.

Anyway, I'm glad to have Jin back. That (and Sayid) was the high point for me.
the female ghost of tom joad: lost jinjanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 07:08 pm (UTC)
everything about Kate in this ep was just wrong

Pretty much. I mean, I never liked her, but at least for a while she was coherently unlikeable. Now she's just unlikeable in some OOC way which I can't just get. I didn't mind Sawyer that much but yeah, there was some characterization issues. I guess I just bought the acting. Locke being like that about Boone pretty much killed any chance he might have of ever getting back in my graces. The J/K stuff completely bothered me but that's no news.

Ditto about Jin and Sayid. Indeed. I also liked Danielle being back in action some way.
just a girl: [cm] garcia; morgan's girl friday_touched on February 5th, 2009 06:33 pm (UTC)
Wow, okay, my being a Claire fan should have told me not to read through any of this, because it only served to offend me. lol. I mean, I totally don't hold it against you, but I guess I just don't get why you hate Aaron so much or why you have so much contempt for Claire. I mean, she hasn't done anything wrong and she was stranded on that stupid island with everyone else. She didn't ask to be stranded there pregnant, to be in the jungle and have to give birth like that or to find in Charlie someone she loved and then had to lose him, because precious Desmond had to live while Charlie sacrificed himself. Okay, sorry, I'm still a bit bitter over the writer's choosing to kill Charlie off and let Desmond live.

Of course, you did warn, but I just didn't realize you had that much contempt for Claire. *shrugs* Hey, it's all good. I still like you. The Jack/Kate stuff, I don't think that Kate is all that sincere and I'd much rather go for Jack/Sawyer, instead. But, yay...Jin's alive and I loved Ben for pointing out to Kate that Aaron is not her kid. lol.
the female ghost of tom joad: lost clairejanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 07:23 pm (UTC)
LOL no wait one second, I don't have contempt for Claire at all. This probably came off all wrong and it didn't have a thing to do with Desmond or Charlie or anything. This afternoon I was pretty pissed off, but I'll try to explain the whole thing here more clearly and without the rage fit. ;)

Re Aaron first: I don't hate the kid. I hate this version of the kid. I just can't stomach that actor and he just comes off as creepy to me, I think it's more of a casting matter I have. Add it with the fact that he's with Kate and that I hate that storyline, here it goes. If he was still a baby and was with Claire or Charlie I wouldn't have had a thing to say regarding the issue. I hope I explained myself here, but I just hate that storyline so much.

Re Claire: I don't have issues with Claire. I have issue with the birthing scene only. I absolutely agree about what you said here and I actually loved Charlie/Claire until.. well, y'know. And I cried when Charlie died. So I absolutely agree with what you said there. My problem is THAT scene in THAT episode.

See, I have an overall problem with Do No Harm. I just can't deal with it and I become a mess every time I watch that thing when I do. It was my favorite character dying and suffering like hell while dying, it was the death of my first Lost OTP (Jack/Boone actually... well, look at it from a shipper's perspective, it's devastating ;) ), I was thoroughly pissed at Locke for lying to Jack and count that Locke used to be one of my five favorite characters. And among all that mess, they placed me that birth scene which, while I don't have anything to do with what I think about Claire, I just can't stomach at all.

Because sincerely, I had Boone dying on the other side and my heart being ripped out there and I just couldn't take the birth scene too. Also, I was screaming my lungs out when Kate was like 'OMG what Jack ISN'T COMING HERE NOW??' when he was giving Boone his blood for the frustration and this whole thing with Boone dying and Aaron being born exactly at the same second like it was necessary for the first thing to happen was just making me even madder. I can't stomach any reference to that episode and that scene more than ever.

Then it doesn't mean that I don't like Claire because I do and that I didn't like her with Charlie and Aaron because I did and if there's one thing I want is for Aaron to get back to her and end this ridiculous IT'S-MY-SON storyline. I just can't bear how they handled the whole thing and that they got me right back there and then Locke had to be all like 'why, it had to happen because now I'm better'. I guess that if my favorite character had been someone else I'd have just shrugged, but getting me back when Boone dies implies making me flip out. ;) Sorry if that came out as contempt because I really don't have it for her. I have it for the writers. Still friends, right? ;) ♥

About the last paragraph, word. I've always been for Jack/Sawyer but seriously, she's totally making me headdesk right now.
just a girl: [lost] charlie&claire; together_touched on February 5th, 2009 09:42 pm (UTC)
Phew, that's good to know that you don't have contempt for Claire. I'm particularly not fond of the fact that Aaron's with Kate and she's acting like she's his mom, when really Claire is.

Okay, I think I can understand better now, why you're so frustrated over the whole birthing scene. Here's my take on it though, I understood that Jack was needed to give Boone blood, but at any minute something horribly could have gone wrong with Claire's birth as well and so, I understand Kate wanting Jack to come and help them. I'm not excusing her actions, I'm just saying on one level that I understand her reasons for being frustrated and being in that stressful a situation. However, I also think, that Jack needed to be with Boone myself. So, don't think this is me giving Kate a pass for acting completely selfish.

I totally get from a shipper's pov, that it was particularly devastating to not only have to watch your favorite character suffer while dying, but to also have to watch your first ship die as well. In Claire's defense, she can't help the fact that it was that particular moment and that particular episode that she went into labor. As I said before, a million and one things could have gone wrong with the birth. I believe that Claire and/or Aaron both could have possibly been killed off back then, but instead the writer's chose for whatever reason's they had, to keep them on the show for which I was glad for. I get that you're frustrated with the writer's and all for that particular storyline, but we all knew that she was going to have to deliver at some point and time and it probably wouldn't be an easy one, either.

Of course, everything you said regarding Locke and his lying about Boone, I definitely agree with that. It pissed me off and it's also one of the reason's that he'll probably never see himself back in my good graces ever. I won't forgive him for that, either. I'm a staunch believer that Boone's blood is definitely on his hands. And the fact that it took him so long to say anything about to begin with, completely pisses me off even more.

It wasn't necessary for Boone to die and I don't think Aaron being born at the same time, made it seem that way. Of course, that's just the way that I view it. It's almost like Aaron is being blamed for being born at that particular time and neither him nor Claire chose for that moment to bring him into the world. It just happened naturally as most birth's do. I get why you can't stomach that episode and scene, but on the other hand it just seems unfair to Claire and Aaron, too. I mean, it's like blaming them for Kate's insensitivity and Locke for not being honest and for getting Boone killed in the first place. I know you're probably not doing that, but that's the way it sounded.

I want Aaron and Claire re-united with one another, but I have this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that because he's with Kate and he's been trained to call her mommy, that he's not ever really going to look at Claire as being his mother, when really she is. That's frustrating to me, ya know. I really had this storyline as well.
the female ghost of tom joad: lost constantjanie_tangerine on February 7th, 2009 10:59 pm (UTC)
Ha, no, I know it might seem like I blame Aaron for being born in that moment but I just blame the writers for having the two things coincide. And while I can get the birth scene while watching Do No Harm having it shown last week in that setting just made me flip mainly because I thought it was shown for cheap value. Meaning, apart from the fact that they cut Charlie and Jin who were all over the place, they showed me Kate making that speech which just sounded like she was justifying herself for what she was going to do in the future while at the same time sending Sawyer into love-sick depression, which I found completely uncalled for. Add that it was set when it was set and I did really flip out, lol. I can get mean but I don't really hate Claire and/or Aaron.

I could get Kate saying that if she hadn't been there before. I mean, when I watched it she sort of sounded surprised that Jack didn't come like she was sure he would when she knew how the situation was on the other side, but I'm also not the greatest Kate fan and whenever I get at that point I don't see straight lol.

Locke lying about Boone is just... so wrong on many levels. I just don't get it. I might have passed him the actual accident because he did tell him to get out even if I'm not forgiving him re bringing Boone there at all, but the lying just makes him come off like the worst jerk in existence not to mention murderer in cold blood. He could have told the truth and they could have had Boone dying anyway considering the injuries' extent, but that AND what he said last night were more than enough.

I know it sounds totally unfair but I swear I don't. I mean, I don't think it's their fault of everyone, poor girl, but see the first paragraph or I'll just repeat myself. ;)

See, I'm kind of hoping secretly that when they go back Aaron indeed time travels, reverts to three months old and they hand him to Claire but that's 1) wishful thinking 2) probably not going to happen 3) really unfair for the poor kid regardless of my disliking of the actor. They made a complete mess out of that story indeed.
just a girl: [lost] charlie&claire; perfect_touched on February 5th, 2009 09:43 pm (UTC)
Haha, I understand having contempt for the writer's. I have it for them myself, ya know. Re: Charlie and all. If it were me, I would have chosen to keep Charlie and let Desmond take his place in a heartbeat and I know that a lot of other people wouldn't agree with me there, but I really wanted him, Claire and Aaron to be a family. I wanted him to have a real family and to know that he can be a better man, ya know. That he could love and be loved. This was my favorite character and I had to watch him almost die all season long and then realize at the end, he was going to die anyway. So, I totally get how you feel about Boone's death 100%, really. Don't think I don't. :)

And dude, we'll always be friends. It's totally cool, we were never not. ♥

Kate's really frustrating me. Half of me is torn, because I want Jack/Kate to be endgame and I want her to be sincere in what she said to him, but another part of me doesn't think she really was being all that sincere. I think she's just going between Jack and Sawyer and seeing which one will stick it out for the long haul and which one will give up or whichever one gives her a reason to run to the other one for good. I don't like that, because it's not healthy and it plays to great guys (iin their own right) against one another.
the female ghost of tom joad: lost jack/sawyerjanie_tangerine on February 7th, 2009 11:07 pm (UTC)
LOL, I doubt that there is someone watching Lost who doesn't have contempt for the writers for something. ;) Personally I never could see why Charlie had to die in there or why Desmond should have died instead. I mean, it could have gone as it went and then instead of closing the door himself Charlie could have run or swam out or something, but having him die that way was so stupid and uncalled for *sigh*. I can't say I'd have wanted Des to die instead because I still love the guy even with the mess they made of his characterization in S4 but believe me, I hated Charlie dying almost as much as Boone dying. (Well, Shannon ranks up there too, but she also was my last resort for a regular Boone appearance each year ;).)

♥ ♥ ♥

I think she's just going between Jack and Sawyer and seeing which one will stick it out for the long haul and which one will give up or whichever one gives her a reason to run to the other one for good. I don't like that, because it's not healthy and it plays to great guys (iin their own right) against one another.

That's my problem. I mean, I used to think Jack/Kate was the most plausible of the two pairings but as things are right now I just can't stand her attitude and I can't see what they find so special in her, either. Which is why I'd rather ship them with each other or with Juliet but just because Kate is so frustrating that I just can't see why they didn't both give her some ultimatum or dump her already. ;) And seriously, it's making me headdesk because the point is that apart from me slashing and all, Jack and Sawyer could have a great friendship (and Sawyer DID state that) and I feel like they just don't really hit off just because she's there in the middle still deciding. Then again maybe it'll change when they go back, but still.
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the female ghost of tom joad: lost constantjanie_tangerine on February 5th, 2009 08:56 pm (UTC)
Re Kate, I just didn't see why the hell would she mention Michael and/or Jin. I mean, I might get Jin but MICHAEL? She hadn't seen him since... what, S2 when he betrayed her? I just don't get that. And well, Locke mentioned Charlie. *sigh* I actually kind of liked Michael again in S4 but that just had completely no sense. But that was completely OOC anyway.

Uhm, tell your friend that she's awesome and I totally get her? LOL, it's unhealthy for me, too.

So once the whole Locke talking about Boone scene goes down, she calls me and starts SCREAMING about what he said. "Really? He needed the pain?! Well fuck him! Fuck it!"

Oh God. Seriously. That was ME. I was screaming too. Yay fellow Boone girls!! ;) ;) and yeah, I want them to change stuff, too. INDEED.
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the female ghost of tom joad: lost boone OMG THE PRETTYjanie_tangerine on February 6th, 2009 10:03 am (UTC)
Yeah he did when he asked Sawyer what he had seen. It went like 'so James, who did you see last night, because with my ESP mojo I know you must have seen someone? Was it Shannon, Charlie..' and then maybe he said another couple of people which I can't recall, but I'm sure he said Shannon and Charlie alright.


LOL that's the attitude. THAT'S THE ATTITUDE *applauds*. I totally and absolutely back her up, violence included. ;) ;) ;)
jefpeanutbutterjefpeanutbutter on February 6th, 2009 12:37 am (UTC)
I find it peculiar that anybody would believe that Locke is responsible for Boone's death. Is that guilt by association? Aiding and abetting in accident?

It's important that Locke was yelling at Boone to hurry up and get out of the plane. If Boone had done what Locke insisted, he'd have lived.
the female ghost of tom joad: lost lockejanie_tangerine on February 6th, 2009 10:07 am (UTC)
I don't exactly blame Locke for the accident's circumstances because he did tell him to get out, but it boils down to two basic things here.

1) Locke had the vision and when he brought Boone to the plane he had to know what was going to happen. He didn't even try to warn the guy and tell him 'hey, I've also seen you die, too.'

2) He lied to Jack about the circumstances. That's what I just won't accept of him. He could have told him the truth and they could have killed him off anyway, but with Locke lying they basically made clear that he just didn't care about saving the guy's life since Jack based the treatment on a wrong assumption. I just can't get it.

I won't say that I think that Locke had FULL and total responsibility there, which is why I cut him slack for three seasons, but he had responsibility and he last night he just pissed me off because you don't say something like that.
jefpeanutbutterjefpeanutbutter on February 6th, 2009 05:55 pm (UTC)
I guess this is just one of those "have to agree to disagree" situations, because I like Locke, I identify with his journey, I find his mistakes to be human and forgivable, I think his lying to Jack was a tough decision that he had to make based on his weighing of the lives of few over the lives of many, and I agree with Locke 100% that he needed to go through that pain to get him to where he is now.
the female ghost of tom joad: INDEEDjanie_tangerine on February 7th, 2009 10:42 pm (UTC)
Uhm, I think it probably is, too. ;)

The problem is that I like(d) Locke, too. It's just that I didn't just like Boone, too, he was my favorite character overall (well, yes, weird choice but it was), having him die first sucked enough on its own and I still think that if they had Locke telling the truth and Boone dying anyway it'd have been much more honest on the writers' and his part. Locke lying just gives him a good deal of the responsibility and I don't think that the place where Locke is now is that good but hey, world is a nice place because it's varied. ;)

Edited at 2009-02-07 10:44 pm (UTC)
amantium_iraeamantium_irae on February 6th, 2009 01:19 am (UTC)
Locke died for me a long time ago and I hope he stays dead.

I love how Boone's death is all about him and the brilliant venckman summarized it so well: "I really liked the exchange between Locke and Sawyer, when Sawyer basically asks why he didn't go talk to his past self to give him some advice on how to act differently. And Locke is all, wha? Why would I want to do anything differently. It's like Baldylocks hasn't learned a damn thing. Sawyer is talking about regret and second chances and undoing errors, and all Locke still cares about is somehow getting advancing to that next level of the Island Game, so he can get a powerpill and two extra lives. "

He's the only one who beats Kate in the Spineless Piece of Shit category this episode and I snicker at how the writers give her a complete carte blanche with motherhood. I was sorta more sympathetic to her when I thought her taking Aaron was somehow foisted upon her by Jack's decision to lie and was all: "Well,you know what? This has been a challenge for me but you dropped this baby on me and I've had to adapt and grow and be his MOTHER so yeah!" Instead she wanted Aaron as an emotional bandaid and never for a MOMENT ever invoked what was bet for him and how wise it was to have him with a wanted murderer. It was all about her and how she needed him to chase away her blues and so she just... made the decision to deny him her real family. She HAS been there for Jack as the guy in charge and did stand up for him. But emotionally? HA fucking ha! I also detest how now that he's somewhat sober, all of the sudden she's not mad at him anymore. He's easy to want NOW, but when he really needs her? She kicks him when he's down. That's love on Lost for you.
the female ghost of tom joad: lost jack **janie_tangerine on February 6th, 2009 10:11 am (UTC)
I tried to stick with the guy because I did like him once, but last night was the last straw. I just can't take it of everything.

Sawyer is talking about regret and second chances and undoing errors, and all Locke still cares about is somehow getting advancing to that next level of the Island Game, so he can get a powerpill and two extra lives.

That exactly. That was indeed brilliant and I just can't stomach it anymore. Whatever, I don't care anymore really.

I can't seriously believe that Kate really wanted Aaron for an emotional bandaid. Also because why, Micheal and Jin are gone? Since when Kate was such friends with Jin and since when she cared about Micheal anyway? Yeah, she said Sawyer too but as the third option? Meh, that exchange was just so stupid, I'll just pretend that she was lying all the way and it'll be easier.

But emotionally? HA fucking ha! I also detest how now that he's somewhat sober, all of the sudden she's not mad at him anymore. He's easy to want NOW, but when he really needs her? She kicks him when he's down. That's love on Lost for you.

That's why I can't stomach the pairing either. ;) ;) And yeah, Locke did beat her by a notch but they're there. I mean. :///// *sigh*
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the female ghost of tom joad: lost sawyer *g*janie_tangerine on February 7th, 2009 12:12 pm (UTC)
1) LOL, unfortunately I know that episode by heart. I wish I didn't though.

2) *snif*

3) ♥♥♥

4) Unfortunately it wasn't....

9) I can't stomach them together indeed.

13) LOL totally. Best thing indeed.

17) *hugs him*

19) LOL, great to hear it. Let's assault the French! ;)

20) Yeah, that's what I think, too. And Locke is totally resurrecting, don't ask me how but I can't believe he'll stay dead.