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21 May 2011 @ 01:58 pm
SPN 6x21 and 6x22, aka LET'S NOT PANIC TOO MUCH.  
Okay, uhm, probably rambly post under the cut. If you don't ship Dean/Cas and you don't like Cas, you probably don't want to read this. Also, don't expect an even review because everyone knows what I'm talking about here.

Okay, so.

I have feelings.

When I finished the ep, they could be summed up in:



and:



Then. I thought about it.

1) I actually loved Let It Bleed. Apart from the Lovercraft and the whole Ellie thing which imo was genius, the Dean/Cas. JESUS THE DEAN/CAS. SAY WHAT YOU WANT BUT THE SPEECH CAS GAVE HIM WHEN HE SAVED DEAN FROM THE DEMON. Ugh show why do you give me everything I want just to take it away. Anyway, CAS SAVING LISA. 'I WISH THIS CHANGED SOMETHING' 'I KNOW' - HE WAS TRYING TO SAY SORRY BECAUSE HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO OH JESUS CAS.

2) Also. RIP Balthazar, I'll miss your face forever and I hope you just pulled a Gabriel round 1 in 5x19 on all of us. I should also say damn you Cas, but.

In the course of this episode Cas has asked Dean to have faith in him and Dean outright refused, and he had found out that Balthazar basically sold him out even if it was for his own good (but he doesn't know that anymore) so THAT WAS HEARTBREAKING BOTH WAYS. When he said that he had no family in the end -- well, BLAME HIM. Guy has been betrayed by his family throughout S4 and S5, he had half of it turning against him in S6 until he had to ally himself with Crowley and then when he asked Dean that last time Dean refused - WHAT DO YOU THINK? I mean just - CASTIEL YOU BREAK MY HEART EVEN WHILE GOING DARKSIDE. Jesus.

3) Also: I had guessed that he was going to empower himself with souls and that it was going to drive him nuts back in 5x17. And 5x18. Damn, I wish I had been wrong.

4) Seeing Raphael blow up like that after being all cowering WHEN HE HAD DONE THAT TO CAS BEFORE - well, fuck it, it was satisfaction. SO MUCH SATISFACTION.

5) Also: DEAN YOU COULD HAVE TOLD CAS THOSE THINGS IN THE PREVIOUS EPISODE COULDN'T YOU. *headdesk*

6) Also: okay seems like I'm not giving a shit about him but Jared that ep was so well-played, even if considering that it was in Sam's head for half of the time the whole thing felt like the pacing was fucked - then again SPN's pacing will always be an issue so whatever. Also I kind of liked how they closed it with Lisa and Ben - it wasn't ethically right but it was sorta the only way they had to close that chapter without killing them off AND giving Dean something else to feel guilty about so I'll stick with it.

7) Also: Crowley ilu even if seriously WITH RAPHAEL. Castiel will never not be sneakier than you.

8) Okay, let's just get to the point. So Cas is God. I don't like it. I think it was purely for shock value because it happened in the last three episodes and we didn't see him vaguely sauntering downwards for the rest of the season so as a shock moment it was half-assed even if IT LEFT ME WITH A PUNCH TO THE GUT.



But, I get it. Also, he got there because he made a bunch of stupid mistakes and because he didn't talk to the people he should have talked to, but he also got doors slammed in his face by everyone (Raphael, other angels, Dean, Balthazar if you look at it from his POV) and well - I sort of like this idea that you become God like that. Also I might be thinking about what Jared said at one point at jib2 about Sam never using the powers fully because if he had he'd have gone out of control/out of his head since too much power will kill you and ha, yeah, guess that's it. Which - tragic. I just - I don't even know how else to put it. Anyway, oint is, we had CAS and now we have God!Castiel who became that just because he was trying to do the goddamn right thing.

Purely Winchester style. I mean, it all gets back to the same point here. Now.

9) I don't think that Cas gone insane on soul juices means he can't get back from that. All right, he's gone darkside, but he went darkside FOR WHO? Yeah. He'll probably throw that in their faces throughout the next season. I won't blame him if he does. BUT.

10) Let's get to why I'm happy ship-wise. I was terrified that they'd kill Lisa and Ben and Dean would spend next season angsting over that.

Which didn't happen.

Which is good, because he's going to spend it angsting over Cas. AND I CAN'T WAIT FOR THAT. I mean. He gave that speech about not wanting to lose him too in the end WAY TOO LATE, but he did. He actually realized how big the whole thing was. And Cas said no and DEAN'S FACE. Maybe he won't spend ALL of his time blaming himself BUT he'll have to think about it, because the guy was his friend and brought him out of Hell and died for them twice, and now he's what they have to fight because Dean didn't trust him the one time he asked?

Jesus if they actually deliver on that I'll be happy. Like, a LOT. Also, I am making a bunch of fix-it scenarios in my head when they spend S7 trying to get Cas to understand that he actually has a family and that it's made of emotionally retarded idiots, but I don't want to get my hopes THAT high on that unless we're talking about fic. Because fic-wise I want to read that, show-wise I really hope that they go there (and possibly that Dean gives him some sort of speech that might snap Cas out of the whole being bad thing, which would make me even happier, but that's me thinking optimistic. Let's just stay with the realistic, aka that Dean WILL feel bad for it because that's how he is). Also tbh ship-wise this left me better than 5x22 left me. Idek. *raises hands*

11) Also: as bad as God!Cas can get, I don't think it'll get TOO horrible. He sounds pretty on the path for revenge (and who'd blame him) and I can't see Crowley making it out of S7 alive if Cas has plans for him, but. He still saved Lisa in 6x21 and it's not like he obliterated Dean/Sam/Bobby. Also there has to be a S7 so however that scene ends when they resolve that cliffhanger in the premiere, it won't end with any of them dying.

12) Also: I've already read that Cas was trying to kill Sam when he made the wall crash, but I actually thing he did it as the last thing he could do for Dean even if the latter wasn't so keen on trusting him. Okay, Sam was on a bed for most of the time in that episode, and what did he do? He actually managed to get over this wall thing, he didn't become a vegetable when he remembered what he did in Hell and considering that in the end he still managed to drive to the warehouse somewhat and to stab Cas, I'm pretty sure he's going to be okay. And I'm also half-sure that Cas knew that because he told Dean that however it'd have ended, Sam would have been safe. Y/Y? I feel like he was his way of making amends for not having brought Sam back properly. And. I HAVEN'T READ ABOUT THAT ANYWHERE ELSE BUT COME ON. I just can't help seeing it that way.

13) Also: I've seen a lot of panicking re Misha not being a regular in S7. Well, he wasn't a regular in S4 and he was in that enough. Being a regular in S5/6 didn't mean he was in all the episodes anyway (especially S6). And Jim Beaver's been recurring since S1 and he's been in half of S4/5/6 so hey even if Misha isn't a regular, considering at what point are they, I highly doubt you'll see him for three episodes. So I'm really not worrying about that.

14) In conclusion: I still feel punched to the gut and I'll miss Balthazar forever (BABY COME BACK), and I don't like the twist (also because as stated it was for pure shock value, I was hoping they wouldn't go there because they hadn't hinted at it long enough), but I don't hate it. I think it can become a pretty great storyline if they don't fuck it up. I think that in regards of D/C, it's absolutely not bad because of all the reasons re Dean finally getting how much he cares about Cas and the entire possible redeeming storyline coming from it (also because Cas isn't really that kind of person by nature and I think it was pretty obvious - I'm pretty positive that there might be coming back from that). I kind of really want to see what they do with it hoping that instead of what I think they should do they just fuck with it completely, but then again I think I liked this season overall so I can't even say I don't trust them. Okay, I don't trust them 100% because of how they got to that point, but I'll give them at least some 60%.

15) In further conclusion: I can work with this, I think it can go to good places, and overall I liked the entire thing well enough - one day I might even do a more seriously comprehensive post. They wrote themselves into a place that will take still to get out of nicely, but considering the latter half of the season I think they can.

16) In even further conclusion: fuck it, if canon doesn't comply let's just write fix-it fic.

16b) Actually brb writing a vampire porn crossover where Dean & Damon meet by chance while tracking down Cas and Stefan and they capture them and put them into forced detox.

17) Cas, whether you're gone for good or not (and I don't think you are), you're still my favorite and I still stick by your questionable choices. Please be what I hope you are next season, thanks, me. And I'm freaking happy that you're not dead anyway. ♥

In, final, conclusion:

 
 
feeling: sadjearing like no tomorrow
 
 
 
A.: pretty castielvella_amor_dm on May 21st, 2011 12:10 pm (UTC)
i knew you'd make it all sound okay *clings to you*

i just. i am SO SCARED for Cas. will the writers deal with his arc properly? will they bother to bring him back to the Cas that we know? or will they just shunt him off into a corner (like they did all of this season) and then have Dean kill him in the season finale? i just. i don't have ANY faith in the writers and seeing Cas like that KILLED me. that 'evil' smirk/smile, the fact that he was getting off on all that power and seemed to find it funny that Dean was FUCKING TERRIFIED OF HIM!?! well shit. way to whip that out Kripke >:(

also, people are saying that Cas tried to kill Sam?! i think that's a fairly silly assumption. he was trying to slow Dean down, give him something else to concentrate on instead of interfering (seeing that talking to Dean worked to well). also, as much as Cas lied to everyone else, he hasn't lied to Dean since he admitted that he was lying to him so i don't see why he would start again. and i don't think he did.

anyway, ILU CAS!!!! please don't leave me bb, come baaaaaaaack! *prays for Castiel*
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural castiel 5x18janie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 12:19 pm (UTC)
I have a tendency to see the positive side I guess. xD <333

Also I AM TOO. But I just want to believe that they'd do him justice if only because apparently Ben Edlund is in the writers' room too. I don't think they'd just let that drop because if he's the big bad then he can't not appear (which is why I'm not worried about the recurring status rather than regular) and -- well. If I was him... I'd totally get off on Dean being terrified. Errr if you look at it from his POV basically he was said no repeatedly and he still did everything he could for them, considering that the whole thing is getting to his head I think that it's the logical conclusion. IT HURTS LIKE A BITCH TO SEE HIM LIKE THAT TOO but tbh I can just understand him if he's there gloating about being able to blow Raphael up like that.

Ugh idek. I saw him as Cas trying to SAVE Sam, rather than killing him, which makes it even more heartbreaking because it was the last thing he did before walking straight into the whole deal. And no, he wasn't lying to Dean and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have.

DEAN FEEL GUILTY FOR THAT *glares*

♥ I'LL NEVER NOT CHOOSE CAS.
A.vella_amor_dm on May 21st, 2011 12:48 pm (UTC)
well there is that, but you really get inside Cas' head and tell me why he did what he did in a lot of detail and so it all makes sense :)

If I was him... I'd totally get off on Dean being terrified. Errr
LOLFOREVER. now i need kinky authoritative!Cas fic XD

i totally understand your interpretation but, to me, it seemed like they were portraying Cas as someone who was thinking 'none of you believed in me/stood by me. i have no family. FUCK YOU!' or something. which is why i'm so sad because to me that is not Cas at all. that is some power-hungry asshole pretending to be Cas :(

i hope Dean realises the extent of all the sacrifices Cas made for them/him. he basically did EVERYTHING for Dean, and he said that too - he said that he always came when called (lol, so whipped) and so why couldn't Dean trust him just this once? the whole Cas thing felt like the season 4 thing with Sam - if both of them had just worked together, they could have found a way to use the souls and get Cas out of there as Cas... but they didn't, and now he's psychotic *sigh*

SO YES, Dean should feel guilty because he is supposed to learn from the past!!! and care about his boyfriend!
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural + nick cave = otpjanie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 09:37 pm (UTC)
Lol I just have a thing for breaking down things that way. Might be the fic writer in me, but then again I spent the last two seasons of Lost finding every possible way to justify OOC behavior from every single character so I guess that I'm just wired to it.

I NEED THAT TOO. A WHOLE DAMN LOT.

Well, it kind of was THAT thing. I mean, none of you believed in me, fuck you, but it's Cas empowered on idekhowmanyMONSTERsouls. Because it's not even human souls. Considering that it was like ONE MINUTE after he did it I'll just chalk it up to him being overwhelmed. Also if he's all 'you didn't believe in me, FUCK YOU' it totally means he still has feelings. xDD

I just want S7 to have Dean understanding the lengths Cas went for him. Then having, like, idk, Dean talking him out of that for a mid-season cliffhanger lolol. Or just, Dean trying to bring him back and apologizing like there's no tomorrow. We can hope that happens y/y? I mean, this damned show is all about your family fixing you. Took them two seasons to fix Sam, Dean and John but they did it. It took them four to fix Dean and Sam, but they did it. Now since putting Bobby into it was going to just sound stupid I want to think that it's Cas's turn. I mean, if he gets redeemed then it's the whole point of it, right? Oh dear now I just hope that Misha doesn't destroy all my carefully crafted optimism at the next con he attends. xDDD
A.vella_amor_dm on May 29th, 2011 11:23 pm (UTC)
if he's all 'you didn't believe in me, FUCK YOU' it totally means he still has feelings. xDD
YES! THAT'S IT!!! HE'S JUST HURT THAT DEAN IS STILL REJECTING HIM.

my main problem/worry is that SPN will be cut after season 7 and they just won't ahve time to fix everything properly. idek.
*clings*
cassiopeia7: Castiel: sad angelcassiopeia7 on May 21st, 2011 12:33 pm (UTC)
I've already read that Cas was trying to kill Sam when he made the wall crash

Really? When, if he really wanted to kill Sam, all he needed to do was simply burn him out? Snap his neck? Smite him? Kind of an odd way to kill someone, especially since Cas said that he'd save Sam no matter what. *scratches head*

fuck it, if canon doesn't comply let's just write fix-it fic.

This, this, this, and THIS. I'm trying so hard to stay positive and clinging to your post in hopes that everything will work out. At this point, all I want is for Cas to recover from the soul poisoning so that Dean doesn't end up hunting him. Because just the thought of that is devastating. :(
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural + nick cave = otpjanie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 12:38 pm (UTC)
What I really want is - well. When there was the risk that Sam might become the thing he wanted to hunt, Dean didn't stop in front of anything. And I think that here it was just clear that he realizes he cares for Cas if not as much, quite close to that. I want to see Dean trying to bring him back instead of putting him on the hunting list - because if that happened I'd just be happy beyond words. *is a romantic*
(Deleted comment)
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the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural + nick cave = otpjanie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 01:20 pm (UTC)
Re: part 2, cause apparently, my comments is too long? O.o
Hey no problem about the rant-ish thoughts, you don't want to know how was my head before I actually wrote this all down neatly. XDD

That said: the Lisa/Ben thing was crap, ethically-wise. And yes, it was totally a way to make things easy on Dean himself, and I'm pretty sure they could have dealt it in a way more satisfying way like Lisa educating herself on stuff you said. But I'm okay with it because it was the only way they had to write them out of the story for good. Meaning: they still could be targeted and everything so it's a -stupid- way, but one would assume that the writers don't intend to go back there if they did it. Any other way it'd have ended a mess - Lisa dying and Ben surviving = whole damn lot of problems because it'd mean Ben having to become a regular or something PLUS Dean feeling guilty about it. Ben AND Lisa dying = Dean angsting forever throughout S7. The both of them getting through it and remembering it all = means that they can't be done with that story. I'm not saying it was the -right- ethical thing to do, but story-wise I just don't see how else they were going to write them off without a bloodbath. It was a cop-out, but I think that god!Cas was pure shock value as well even if I can see how it would pan out. And tbh 'm just glad that the both of them didn't die after all.

Also you totally have a point on

Stealing their memories is just another way Dean circumvents the choices of the people he cares about to make himself feel better, to make it easier for him to handle the situation.

and the forcing the soul back (though tbh I can't say I hate Dean for doing it - living with soulless!Sam around would make me forget ethics xDD), but I think that it's what they have in store with Dean for next season. I mean, we have God!Cas. Why did that happen? Because instead of trying the hard way and stop being hypocritical (because being like YOU BETRAYED ME at Cas just for working with Crowley coming from any Winchester is ridiculous) he just went with the easy way out and slammed the door in Cas's face - and still asked him to go ctrl/alt/canc on Lisa and Ben, and that still didn't change anything. And what does Cas do? Yeah, that. I'm half-sure that if Dean had told him yes when Cas saved his ass from the demon Cas wouldn't have done that. If this whole bad!Cas thing means that Dean gets things straightened out, deals with his guilt issues and tries to bring Cas back instead of not even trying then I can't wait for S7. Really. Because that'd make a really good story. If they choose to go for it.

Also word on the beauty of the D/C-ness in the later part of the season, even if I'll admit that I enjoyed the whole thing overall. Or well, I'd rate higher than 8 at least episodes 4/4/15/17/18/19/20 and I DID like the finale, mostly, so I can't say that this season was a failure. I'd just like for them to go into S7 knowing that even if it came to be in a pretty fucked way, they DO have a good story on their hands. I just want them to put it to good use. Also considering that Cas became what he became for Dean (and Sam to a lesser extent) I want to think that it can be a redeeming storyline - fuck, if this show is about family and Dean DID accept that in the last scene regardless of the crap Cas said, then I want to think he'll do anything to bring him back. I can hope y/y?

Also the cinematography was all over the place - I mean, episodes from 17 to 20 were all pretty amazing (18 especially but errr I have a thing for that episode if it wasn't clear), the rest - not so much with some exceptions. But yeah, in the finale it was weird. X__X

Let's hope for a good one, shall we? I think there's potential there, let's hope they use it.
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the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural castiel 5.0janie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 03:10 pm (UTC)
Re: part 2, cause apparently, my comments is too long? O.o
Dean's worst problem, imo, is that he can be a serious hypocrite when he wants to. Which doesn't mean I don't <3 him, but he can. And if in S7 they make him JUST GET THE FUCK OVER IT maybe I'd appreciate that. Also Cas didn't choose Crowley over him, not really, but he probably doesn't see him that way.

And your second paragraph is everything I want. And I just want to be optimistic - this show has yet to disappoint me completely so I guess I'll just be optimistic for everyone and go plan some fix-it. ;)
Kros_21kros_21 on May 21st, 2011 01:10 pm (UTC)
ma che cavolo è successo?!?!?!??!

Non ho altro da dire, seriously. O.O
the female ghost of tom joadjanie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 01:26 pm (UTC)
Sto ancora O_________________________O da due ore O______________O
lover all alone: SPN: The Dream Teaminvisiblelove on May 21st, 2011 01:45 pm (UTC)
;__________________;

Seeing Cas all evil and power hungry like that destroyed my soul. And then to know that he's not going to be a series regular next season?? ;__; ;_____; DDDD:

And then also what kills me is the thought of them killing him off when he's still like that. It'd be like killing Sam off when he was still de-souled (I mean, obvs you couldn't kill Sam or Dean, but hopefully you get what I'm trying to say XD). I just really need Cas to at least be redeemed. I hope they can do that.

*points to icon* Team Free Will thoooooo DDDDDDD:
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural team free will #2janie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 01:56 pm (UTC)
*hugs*

I'm not worrying about the regular/recurring. The way I see it, in S6 Cas might as well have been recurring considering how much he was in it - the CW just wants to save money and not pay a full regular contract. Or that's how I think it is. Jim Beaver isn't a regular and he's still been in half of the episodes each season, so that isn't what's really worrying me. What worries me is that they can either go:

a) Dean and Sam try to bring Cas back to reason;
b) They end up fighting each other with no redeeming chances;

If A happens I'll be the happiest person ever because it means that I'll finally get Dean giving a shit about Cas because he's family and doing for him what he did for Sam in S2 - if B happens, I'll weep forever and hope that Cas gets the redeeming Sayid moment. (And that Dean is his Desmond.) What I really hope for is Dean talking him out of this business, but until S7 starts.. heck, I mean, what's fix-it fic for? And I totally get that - but since in the end Dean finally GOT it (the way I see it at least) I'm pretty sure they won't try to kill him.

(Also, er, how do you kill God? XDDD THAT MIGHT BE A PROBLEM YOU KNOW. XD)

I don't think TFW is dead either. Heck last thing Cas did was saving Sam - because I think that the wall crashing wasn't a mean to damage him, considering that it ended up with Sam up and running after he confronted the part remembering Hell. If they do redeem it, TFW could totally happen again. OH WHATEVER I'M AN OPTIMIST BY NATURE IDEK. *clutches at straws*
joyjoyyjpg on May 21st, 2011 02:44 pm (UTC)
jearing like no tomorrow




I had these ready in the event of Castiel's death but didn't get a strong enough emotional response out of that for them to be appropriate. Except that they are.

I STILL DON'T KNOW HOW TO FEEL. OH CAS. CAAAASSSS. ;_____;
the female ghost of tom joad: lost nirvana!jackjanie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 03:01 pm (UTC)
OOOH I NEEDED SOME JEARS GIFS ESPECIALLY THE LATTER. JACK YOU'LL ALWAYS BE SO RELEVANT.

I DON'T KNOW EITHER BUT WHEREVER CAS GOES I GO.
goldenusagigoldenusagi on May 21st, 2011 02:54 pm (UTC)
I'm really not too optimistic about the show dealing with Cas. I mean, we as Cas fans can say, "look what happens when everyone turns their back on him" but I'm not sure that's how most people see it or how the shot itself sees it.
the female ghost of tom joad: O___Ojanie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 03:00 pm (UTC)
Lol idek I just trust Ben Edlund. But as things are - I didn't dislike the season overall and there is stuff I really liked and stuff I could have done without, and I've stuck through shows that did way worse things and idek I just want to think that they can fix it and show the redeeming power of family all over again. Especially since it's not like there was anyone else they could do that with since Dean & Sam are pretty much fixed by now. /clutches at straws

Idk just, the D/C stuff was enough for me to think that they care about the whole thing. Let's just hope I'm right?
Giulia: SPN_Get thate0wyn on May 21st, 2011 02:55 pm (UTC)
1) Balthazar ;_________; Qualcuno mi ha detto che non si sono viste le ali, il che è vero... speriamo, anche se oggi sono così pessimista che mi viene da dire che se le sono semplicemente dimenticate...

2) CAS
Non ho parole, questi episodi, dal 20 in poi, mi hanno fatto un male pazzesco, lo sai bene. Poi il 'Cas' dell'ultima scena, vederlo così... quello non era proprio Cas, le anime gli hanno dato alla testa. Assieme al 'tradimento' di Dean, il fatto che non gli ha dato fiducia è stato quello che lo ha mandato definitivamente ko e lo ha fatto sbroccare...

3) Sono d'accordo con te su Lisa&Ben. Menomale che non l'hanno fatta morire, Dean di sicuro non aveva bisogno di sentirsi ancora di più in colpa.

4) Riguardo al discorso 'regular'. Che gran casino. Hanno gestito tutto malissimo... era meglio se non avessero mai promosso Misha, prima di tutto perchè non l'hanno sfruttato a dovere e poi perchè, ora, sembra quasi che lo stiano 'retrocedendo'. Mi auguro tu abbia ragione e appaia cmq come nella 4° o come appare Jim. Certo che la Gamble di sicuro non si attrae le simpatie con quell'intervista... mi auguro, come mi scrivevi su twitter, che abbia detto quelle cose solo perchè voglia tenerci sulle spine anche se... boh, una parte di me non è convinta ;____;

E grazie di nuovo, oggi su twitter sei stata un raggio di sole in una giornata buia ♥
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural dean/castieljanie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 03:19 pm (UTC)
1) beeeeh. Non si era neanche visto il corpo, non è del tutto campata in aria come teoria XD alla fin fine tutte le volte che sono (in teoria) morti angeli e non si sono viste ali alla fine sono saltati fuori di nuovo. INCROCIAMO LE DITA ;__; (ETA: poi ho sospetti sul fatto che non si è visto il momento preciso - con Rachel l'hanno fatto vedere, con lui hanno solo inquadrato da fuori. Mmmh.)

2) ;________________________________; mah l'ultima scena secondo me se prendi in considerazione QUANTE DANNATISSIME ANIME HA DENTRO - ok che è OOC, ma mi sarei stupita del contrario.

Assieme al 'tradimento' di Dean, il fatto che non gli ha dato fiducia è stato quello che lo ha mandato definitivamente ko e lo ha fatto sbroccare...

Brb sto ancora piangendo su quello ;___;

3) E alleluia. Se fossero morti (lei o lui o tutti e due) sarebbe stato un disastro di proporzioni epiche in quanto a sensi di colpa. E ora Dean può sentirsi in colpa per Cas senza troppi problemi, non mi dispiace troppo la cosa xDD

4) Vero? Che poi vista la situazione non vuol dire niente se non è regular, vuol dire che lo pagano di meno per apparire lo stesso numero di volte - e vabbe', chiamiamo le cose come stanno e non facciamo drammi, mi pare più importante COME lo usano. Perchè se è tipo S4 figuriamoci, andrebbe più che bene visto quanto NON l'hanno fatto nella 6. Riguardo la Gamble guarda l'intervista era esattamente sugli stessi toni di una che aveva dato quella che scrive i vampire diaries. Prima della finale era tutta 'oooh ma non è detto che non facciamo fuori uno dei tre protagonisti eh' esattamente nello stesso stile e poi col cavolo che l'hanno fatto xD poi quando dicono 'non possiamo dirti niente perchè ti spoileriamo' e ti fanno pensare che succede chissà che di solito non mantengono mai xD aspetterei che arrivino spoiler più avanti prima di fasciarmi la testa ;___;

♥ ♥ ♥ ♥

Edited at 2011-05-21 03:20 pm (UTC)
kianspo: Cas wait here thenkianspo on May 21st, 2011 03:51 pm (UTC)
TBH, when I thought that the finale might hit us bad, I didn't realize how bad. Yes, you're right, things are fixable, but it's hard to have faith that anyone would want to fix them considering what they had done with the show so far.

Cas breaks my heart. I said to a friend last night as we were watching: "Now there isn't a single person in the universe who hasn't betrayed Cas.' It's true. But making him kill Balthazar? Who first acted like a jealous boyfriend and then clearly sided with Dean because he was scared for Cas? That's a thing he's never going to make peace with.

Thank God Lisa isn't dead and Cas healed her, because if she died, Dean never would have forgiven Cas anything. Like Bobby won't.

On the other hand, Sam's bound to go through hell almost literally now, and considering Cas sent him there, Dean isn't going to be happy.

And the God thing... It was a predictable outcome, and yet, imagining Cas of all people as a mindless power monger is not only painful -- it makes no sense at all. Okay, sure, the script writers can go with that. Shock value, effect, and one could argue that Cas pictures himself as a 'better' more responsible god and in his head it makes sense to him. But really? Cas the power maniac? Really? Cas?

In comparison, Sam's little road trip to be a demon blood junkie is somehow so damn mild...

Just read a friend saying that she 'can't write Dean/Cas right now.' Sadly, that's probably how a lot of people feel. D:
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural dean/cas ANGSTjanie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 04:20 pm (UTC)
Er, it might be that I'm optimistic because the show hasn't really... you know, Disappointed me with the big D until now. I might be comparing it to other stuff but I've been way more disappointed and I don't know, the whole thing felt convoluted and they went into it for shock value without building it up as it should have, but it still wasn't total character assassination. Not yet anyway. (Also this whole thing is about family redeeming you - Dean/Sam/John are done and fixed, I can just think they brought Cas into it so he'd have a slice of Winchester angst. After all Dean called him his family at the end still.)

I'm still :(((( over Balthazar but I guess Cas just saw it as the last betrayal he went through AND it was just after Dean slammed the door in his face AGAIN. And he doesn't know it's for his own good - he's too far gone. I'd want him to feel extremely guilty about it if he ever recovers. Though we didn't actually SEE Balthy die (no wings, no body, moment of death not actually seen) so while I know it's unlikely... I want to think we might get surprises. xD Heck no one ever showed Anna dying when she exploded in 4x10, and there were no wings and such. And only the ones whose wings we saw were dead.

Sam's bound to go through hell almost literally now, and considering Cas sent him there, Dean isn't going to be happy.

I agree to disagree. By the end Sam was having flashes but he was in his body and well enough to drive all over there (J doubt it was within walking distance). He faced both soulless!Sam and the part of him that was in Hell and he was still alive and kicking. As bad as it gets, he won't be a drooling vegetable anytime soon. And now that the wall HAS crashed there's no danger it'll crash anymore. And the last thing Cas told Dean before leaving was that his brother would have been safe - I just see it like the last thing Cas could do for Dean that he actually DID even if Dean had told him he wasn't going to back him up. I think Sam's going to be fine and if anything it's another reason for Dean to feel guilty about.Or that's how I saw it.

I think that the power trip thing is -- well. It's OOC for Cas but guy opened Purgatory inside him, it's all monsters' souls, he did it in a moment when he felt rejected by everyone and it got to his head. It isn't -our- Cas, but in the first ten seconds after powering himself up THAT much I wouldn't have expected him to be.

... actually, right now I feel like I WANT to write Dean/Cas. There's potential. You can have Cas feeling vindicative because it was DEAN rejecting him, I was sorta hoping that Dean would pull with Cas what he pulled with Sam in S2/S4 (meaning trying to save him from becoming something he hunts), there's the fact that Dean will feel guilty for ages because Cas asked him ONCE to trust him even if he made a mistake and Dean didn't, so the whole thing is also his fault. You can have the redeeming arc - and that was that line of Cas's saying that he has no family. This show is ALL about family eventually saving you, if Dean wasn't bluffing and pre-powering-himself-up Cas wasn't then there's totally a good story in there because they COULD show Cas the contrary and he might get down from the power trip. Idk in 5x22 they didn't leave anyone shipping D/C with much to work with - it was less tragic but it was just LESS. Now I just feel like there's so much you can do with D/C and that THEY can do with D/C, and I'm kinda really looking forward to work with it. Idk POV difference I guess?
kianspo: Cas dreamykianspo on May 21st, 2011 04:42 pm (UTC)
POV difference I guess?

:) Not so much. See, I want things to work out the way you say, I really want to. I want the show creators to see it your way. It's just that so far, the only person Dean has been fully forgiving of was Sam. No matter what Sam did, and in Sam's case it's a big 'no matter'. Cas has always been bitchslapped by Dean repeatedly before even being allowed to explain himself. It's been the pattern so far.

I'm a Dean/Cas shipper and a Cas fan, which probably explains why it hurts so much. And I can't help but notice that Dean only started telling Cas that he's family after it became the last possible resort of convincing him to do as Dean wants. And the finale scene was so blatantly obvious in Dean telling Cas things he wanted to hear with caution -- it reminded me painfully of the way you'd talk to someone who's about to jump off a building. Like 'I'll say whatever you want, just step back, please.' Much as I'd love to think that Dean was already feeling remorse, I believe that scene was more of emotional manipulating on his part, painfully obvious, because Dean isn't good at it. (And we love him for it.)

Yes, given Dean's propensity to blame himself for everything, he's going to be carrying a lot of guilt over Cas, but much as I want to see it, his attitude to Cas' mistakes so far has been 'You're not a friggin' child, Cas.' Which isn't exactly inspiring.

As for Sam, I agree that he's going to be more or less all right. He was hurt, though, and Cas was the one who did it, which is why I'm afraid for Dean's reaction. I hope he'd see it your way.

I'm glad they dealt with Ben and Lisa (I do hope it's final) and with Sam-has-a-wall-in-his-head timebomb. I'm just afraid of the fallout.

In short, I wish you'd be right in ALL your predictions. And I'm happy someone is optimistic right now. ;)
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural + nick cave = otpjanie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 09:48 pm (UTC)
I know. Which is why I hope that S7 is 'Dean feels guilty about fucking up with Cas' season. Considering who we're talking about there's totally the chance to go there - I just need to see if they take it or not. I sure hope as fuck they do - also because now that they did THIS they have to keep Cas around or it'd be the biggest ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME that ever happened since, uuuhm, the clusterfuck that was Heroes S3. xD

Mmmh, not sure about the last scene. Okay, Dean was obviously scared out of his wits, but he DID tell Cas he was family in 6x20 when he was like 'please don't do it' and at that point he was unprompted and I didn't see it as bluffing. I think he means it - it's just that this idiotic pacing/choice of plot device makes it seem to come out of nowhere. But it'd be like Dean to realize it when it's too late. I think he meant that in the end - not as much the family but the 'I don't want to lose you too', because by that point he seemed pretty sincere to me. I might be seeing it with rose-tinted glasses (or as much as you CAN with that scene anyway) but I think that it's weird just because they decided to state that in the last three episodes. Which doesn't make it any less true - or any less valid, since knowing Dean he would never say it out loud unless it's Sam. He's impaired like that - heck, he barely told Bobby that kind of thing as far as I remember. And idk I think that Cas REALLY going insane over this might be what makes him re-think his attitude.

Also you can't exactly go and kill GOD, so that's going to take some work for them. (Unless Cas goes nuclear and explodes in 7x01 but as stated that would pretty much nullify their precious shock value and then WHAT THE HELL HAPPENS ANYWAY, they don't get a coherent storyline but end up hunting monster souls? It just doesn't work from any angle I see it.)

Yeah but if he gets through that, the wall isn't an issue. I'd like to assume that they wouldn't overlook that - not when it means that Cas has basically saved Sam's ass before metaphorically killing himself. I guess I'll just have to be optimistic on this one.

And I hope I am too. xD heck I was right on Cas wanting to empower himself with souls, maybe I'll be right about the rest. ;)
Neblinosa: Castiel // Brokenheartedblackonice on May 21st, 2011 07:34 pm (UTC)
I don't know if it makes me an evil person, but I basically understand why Castiel did what he did.

I mean, everyone he cared about turned their back on him in the end. The one time he asks for trust it's denied to him, and I'm not so sure that the outcome of this whole purgatory clusterfuck would have been the same had Dean and Sam been supporting him from the beginning. That he should have talked to them? Sure. But when the shit finally hits the fan and Cas needs them... the only thing they can come up with is rejecting him. I think that if Dean had tried harder to talk to Cas about the purgatory plans thing could have been pretty different.

So, not so surprised Cas went darkside. Actually, season 6 promo pics and Cas' dark outfit were pretty much foreshadowing what was going to happen in the end, and I was prepared for it, really. However, I think it's pretty telling that the first thing Cas demands when he's been powered up and supposedly out of his mind with power is love (in a psycho kind of way, ok, but he could have demanded obedience in a different way, yet he went for love). I think he is asking of them the thing he feels he hasn't been given all of this time.

He's always been there for the Winchesters, risking his life whenever Dean asked him for help. Most of the time they only went to Castiel when they needed him for something, so I can see Cas slowly coming to think that he is not valued enough by those he considers his friends.

I... ugh, I can't even. I could be talking about Cast for hour, if you'd let me. I feel he is such a great character and I've been feeling his hurt these past few episodes...

I want to see what the writers will do with this storyline in season 7. It has a great, great potential for angst (which I kind of loooooove) and it could get pretty epic if they manage to come up with a plausible way to redeem Cas or even if they have a endgame Winchesters-dark!Castiel confrontation. But also, they could screw it up badly if they keep Cas as a token bad guy so.... *sigh* I suppose we can only wait, right?

PD - Wobbly Stefan is wobbly *_*
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural castiel 5.0janie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 09:55 pm (UTC)
Wobbly Stefan perfectly represents my state of mind when I finished watching this. ;)

Also. I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID TO EVERY STUPID POSSIBLE COMMA. Especially:

However, I think it's pretty telling that the first thing Cas demands when he's been powered up and supposedly out of his mind with power is love (in a psycho kind of way, ok, but he could have demanded obedience in a different way, yet he went for love). I think he is asking of them the thing he feels he hasn't been given all of this time.

THIS. JESUS. IT JUST MAKES ME WANT TO GRAB A BLANKET AND HUG HIM AND HIDE HIM FROM THE WORLD OR SOMETHING. It's just - THAT. YES. You nailed it and I had thought about it too but I guess I just forgot to put it in. And I just, I really really hope that they manage to use this storyline to its full potential because it has such good possibilities to become really GOOD. But I think Cas has been around for too long for just making him a token - and he still has to deal with Crowley so he has to be around y/y? xD and yeah. We can wait. AND WRITE FIX-IT FIC IN THE THREE MONTHS WE HAVE LEFT ANYWAY. I just really want them to give him the redemption storyline - fuck, Dean had it, Sam had it, JOHN sort of had it, EVERY WINCHESTER had it and it was said that Cas was family enough times even if too late by everyone enough times in this ep, can I just hope it goes like that? Yes?
rock_chick_333: Crowley Evilrock_chick_333 on May 21st, 2011 09:27 pm (UTC)
RAPHAEL TOTALLY HAD THAT ONE COMING. I may have fist-pumped and yelled exultantly at that point, even though my darling Cas was in the middle of going dark--side.
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural castiel 5x18janie_tangerine on May 21st, 2011 09:51 pm (UTC)
Dude I WAS SO HAPPY. I DIDN'T EVEN CARE ABOUT DARTH VADER CASTIEL FOR A SECOND - I WAS JUST SO HAPPY HE GOT BLEW OFF. I hadn't been so happy about a character dying since Lost times for someone everyone hated lolol.
sparzakvj on June 3rd, 2011 04:19 am (UTC)
Love you
I have thought all of these things and thank you SO much for putting some of my fears at ease. I've heard talk about the Balthazar thing, since we didn't actually "see" him die and all...but I don't know that light was pretty convincing. Cas is my favorite character, he's the reason I started watching SPN again after waiting so long. So one also hinted that Cas may not be the main bag guy for next season though. I really hope for some kind of redemtion, bc as I've been reading and with what you've written he just did it Winchester style. I really want Chuck to make and appearance as God, and mabye either make Cas be an angel again or make him a full on human for the rest of his life. I hope we see Death again next season as well. It'll be untill septemeber untill our fears are denied or comfirmed, and mabye before then when people start leeking spoilers for next season. either way I may make myself sick over what is going to happen...I've never been this obsessed over a TV show before. God.
the female ghost of tom joad: JEAAAARRRSSSSjanie_tangerine on June 6th, 2011 11:02 am (UTC)
Re: Love you
Ehe, no worries! Now just hope that I was right all along, lol. And well, the light WAS convincing, but then again when Anna blew her grace up what did we see? Idk I'm of the idea that as long as you don't see the body you can never be sure. And well I'm okay with Cas being the temporary bad guy if a) they make it coherent with his character and b) they redeem him someway. ;) And yeah word, I just really want Chuck to be back and slap some sense into everyone. Not too much to ask, right? And haha I just decided that I'll enjoy the hiatus because we can write as much fix-it as we want, and until S7 starts I live in denial of anything horrible happening. ;) also ugh don't tell me. I thought I was done with obsessing insanely when Lost was over. Riiight.
twisting_vine_x: Castiel - Bring It Ontwisting_vine_x on June 6th, 2011 08:31 am (UTC)
Finally, finally managed to watch the episodes. It took another week for me to stop hurting long enough to think or talk about what had happened. A lot of it comes down to whether the writers can do Castiel's arc properly, eh?

I mean, come on. Sammy went darkside for the greater good, even when everyone (Dean) was telling him not to. Castiel went darkside for the greater good, even when everyone (Dean) was telling him not to. Sammy got a chance to redeem himself. Can Castiel please get that chance, too? He deserves better than to just become the Big Bad of season seven.

-angsts-

On the plus side - I watched a Brasil con video where Misha was saying that the original plan of the writers was to kill Castiel in season six. Soooo... considering that... yeah, I will take Godstiel over Castiel being dead, happily.

-clings hopefully to the idea of season seven actually doing this story justice-
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural cas ;_____;janie_tangerine on June 6th, 2011 11:07 am (UTC)
Lol I hurt so hard just after watching them. Then I went into zen/denial/there's always fic mode because otherwise I couldn't take it. But yeah, I think they DO have a great potential in there, so I'm not saying that I hate this until I actually see S7.

Sammy went darkside for the greater good, even when everyone (Dean) was telling him not to. Castiel went darkside for the greater good, even when everyone (Dean) was telling him not to. Sammy got a chance to redeem himself. Can Castiel please get that chance, too?

WORD. Also tbh I hope they don't do the typical big bad thing. I mean, what if instead of killing people he decides to go and bring world peace or something other honorable thing with questionable methods? If they really have to do that, I hope they do it in an interesting way.

YEAH I KNOW. EXACTLY. I mean, he also said in Nashcon that he's apparently their nemesis BUT THAT'S OKAY IF HE'S NOT DEAD. As long as he isn't dead then there's a chance he can be redeemed, lol. I'll take anything over him being dead really. *clings to that with you*
twisting_vine_x: Castiel - Bring It Ontwisting_vine_x on June 8th, 2011 05:41 am (UTC)
I mean, he also said in Nashcon that he's apparently their nemesis BUT THAT'S OKAY IF HE'S NOT DEAD. As long as he isn't dead then there's a chance he can be redeemed, lol. I'll take anything over him being dead really. *clings to that with you*

EXACTLY. Apparently Misha mentioned at both Nashcon and RisingCon that the writers had originally planned to kill him in season six, and then changed their minds and went the Godstiel direction instead... so I'm with you on this one. Season six could have ended a lot worse. As long as he's still alive, I will continue to hope desperately for a decent outcome.

-more clinging-