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22 April 2013 @ 02:50 pm
game of thrones 3x04 - and now his watch has ended  
Goes unsaid that if you don't like Theon you really don't care for this. Also: book spoilers mostly in the Theon section.

1) Hi, I'm dead. Like, seriously, what-the-fuck-did-happen-in-this-episode I'm not even sure I can even.

2) Okay, let's get out of the way the WTF first. So.. like.. this entire thing about Pod's prowess in bed keeps on being totally senseless if you ask me. maybe at some point they'll actually show it having a point, but for now I'm just mainly 'what the hell'. Then: er what Ros knows that LF wants to bring Sansa to the Vale and she tells Varys for - for what? I mean, I'm totally cool with Ros actually doing something instead of getting naked - like, if she has to be there at least have her do something useful, but where the hell are they even aiming?

I still think that LF finds her out and sends her back North and she's Jeyne Poole's replacement. Like. Uh. CAN SOMEONE JUST PLEASE GIVE ME A LOT OF GOOD REASONS WHY I MIGHT BE WRONG, THANKS?

3) ... uh. If they wanted to show us that Varys can be creepy, they did. That wasn't in the book, right?

4) Tywin telling straight to Cersei that he doesn't trust her because she thinks she's a lot smarter than she *really* is was gold though. See, that's why I can't hate Tywin, he makes too much sense for me to hate him. Even if HAHAHAH I TOTALLY KNOW WHAT HE WAS WRITING ABOUT HELP.

5) Joffrey and Margaery scenes just make me cackle endlessly because if you know how that ends it's just hilarious. On the other side, Margaery and Sansa are actually sweet.

6) YAY DANY'S STORY IS GOING SOMEWHERE THEY'RE ACTUALLY DOING IT RIGHT! Also: was it just me or Jorah, Missandei and Barristan were ridiculously turned on when she put the slaver dude on fire? I predict a lot of frustration-driven orgies. I also have nothing more relevant to add but I mean it was done awesomely and now I just wish I didn't lose 80% of my taste for Dany's storyline between S2 and ADWD.

7) By the time this story is over, Bran is going to need so much therapy. D: then again I'm good with the fact that they're showing his dreams because hey I mean there's a chance they'll do the same with Jaime later.

8) No Tullys = DDDD:, no Robb = moderate D: (I mean, as they're doing it I can take it or leave it), no Talisa = reason why I enjoyed this a lot more overall than the others. Sorry not sorry.

9) SANDOOORRRRRR I MISSED YOU. And finally it looks like they actually understood how he's supposed to act? I mean, in comparison to last season this was the feast of IC, Sandor-related. Also WAS THAT BERIC YOU LOOK GOOD. And Aryaaaaa ;___; ARYAAAA ;___; *CRIES FOREVER*

10) Olenna Tyrell is still vastly entertaining.

11) JAIME. JAIME.

AND BRIENNE.

AND JAIME.

AND BRIENNE.

SHJDAKJDHKDHFDKJFHDSKHFKDJSHFJKSHFDDHFK CAN I JUST BE HERE SQUEEING THEY'RE DOING THESE SCENES SO WELL DJFHSJFKHSJKFH *JAIMEEE*.

I just - his face. His dejected face. EVERYTHING. AND HE TRIED TO ESCAPE AND BRIENNE WAS TOTALLY LOOKING AT HIM LIKE 'OMG THAT'S HOPELESS BUT I FUCKING RESPECT YOU' AND THEN SHE JUMPED OUT OF THE HORSE EVEN IF SHE HAD HER HANDS TIED BECAUSE SHE COULDN'T TAKE THAT ANYMORE AND THEY KEPT THE PART WHERE SHE TELLS HIM NOT TO BE A CRAVEN and while the 'you're behaving like a woman' line kind of jarred me at first I think that in the context she just wanted to rile him up and that was probably the best way she thought of. And when she asked him why he saved her and her face just went from 'the fuck are you doing stop whining' to 'I wish I could hug you damn you' I just - can someone give Gwen an award or two. And to NCW too because seriously ahkjsafhjkdhf. and 'I WAS THAT SWORD HAND' you idiot YOU'RE BETTER THAN YOUR STUPID SWORD HAND *dies of Jaime feels* Those two I can't I just they're perfect and SEE HBO THAT'S HOW YOU CHANGE SUBTLE THINGS THAT WE EVENTUALLY DON'T MIND BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT FUCKING SHIT UP. Sigh. Jaime. JAIME. ;_____;

12) Speaking of awards: people. Seriously. Can someone just go and recognize that Alfie Allen would totally rank in the 'the five people who can act best in this entire show' instead of asking him 'how does it feel when people hate your character' whenever they interview him? I just - this entire arc was going to make me weep regardless but he's completely and utterly killing it and I just don't get why I don't see every single fucking review around stating it. I just - THAT ENTIRE PART BEFORE THEY WENT BEYOND THE DOOR (and seriously Theon WHY DIDN'T YOU AT LEAST NOTICE THAT NO ONE WHO HADN'T BEEN AT DEEPWOOD MOTTE WOULD HAVE HAD THE KEYS ;____;) and he started monologuing was the most heartwrenching thing I've seen lately and fhksdjghdfjgdjk THEEEOOOONNNNN. Let's not get into the mind games from before because seriously the fact that Ramsay knew exactly what to say to push the right buttons (*I saw you when you left Pyke!*) was already enough to make me want to scream, but just - the more he spilled the more I went like STOP IT YOU IDIOT HE'S GOING TO USE THAT AGAINST YOU LATER NOOO. Also, confession: I muted the audio when they nailed him back on the cross because I just couldn't hear it. Then I looked at the gifs and seen the dialogue I had missed and pretty much went and cried. Also: Iwan Rheon congratulations on the creepy face you made at the last scene because - uuuh - I just - it totally scared me shitless. As much as I'm not looking forward to see how it goes now I'll have to give it to him, he can act the part. Woah. Uh. This season is going to traumatize me forever.

Also: that line about Theon saying that Ned was his real father... I've seen around that it's OOC at this point and I can see why, but I don't think it was too much the case. First thing: they probably put it in for the same reason they had Cat's speech about Jon ie making him sympathetic to the tv audience, but while Cat's speech about Jon was completely out of the blue, I don't think that one was. Mostly: the audience for this show is ridiculously thick because seriously, I've seen people disliking Theon regardless of the fact that they've been spending two seasons making us get *why* he did the shit he did (seriously, for all I can complain about the show I think that they always presented Theon in a mostly sympathetic light) and I really fucking don't get how if you only watch the show you can say that *he's worse than Joffrey/betrayed the Starks* etcetera, so I'm mostly inclined to think that since this was the last time for the next fucking two seasons at least when this guy won't be seen tortured/chained somewhere and when he actually could speak his mind freely, it was the last occasion for them to actually try to win the audience over. Other than that: I don't think that book!Theon would have ever though of Ned in fatherly terms at this point, but in the show I always thought that he's... well, he generally lies to himself a lot less. IE: in the show he outright refuses to go to the Wall because he thinks the situation is totally lost already and he actually showed himself being pretty emotional to Luwin, while in the book he had fully considered it and was ready to go for it, regardless of the fact that the situation was still completely lost and he certainly didn't go tell Luwin how much it sucked to spend ten years being a hostage - I don't know if I explained myself, but I have the impression that in the show they always had him being a lot more aware of the shit going on with him than he was in the book. Now, if he says that Ned was his real father it's mostly Stockholm Syndrome in all its glory, but considering the show's characterization I don't think that it's so OOC that he arrived to that conclusion at this point. Let's also not forget that he's been tortured first, then almost raped, now he thinks he can trust the guy he's with, he's being emotional
and he's opening up to the one person that he can count as a friend right now - in comparison to how things were when Ned was alive and he lived at Winterfell and Robb was there of course to him it seems like some kind of fairytale right now. Regardless of the fact that it *wasn't*, but it's the same thing that was going on in ADWD - the fact that while he was trying to get out of the Reek persona he remembered his life at Winterfell like the best that ever was doesn't necessarily mean that he couldn't have thought the exact same thing while he was being tortured but he still hadn't broken down completely. Also in S2 he did tell Robb 'your father raised me like this and that EVEN IF I WASN'T A STARK' so I mean, if we're talking show characterization it does make sense that he might consider Ned his surrogate father on *some* level though most likely it's something he likes to think when he wasn't worrying about Ned cutting his head. This is obviously just valid for the show, but I don't really think that it's the kind of wild OOC that was Catelyn regretting that she treated Jon wrong or the way Robb is behaving right now.

tldr: give Alfie some fucking award, okay. Also: HOW COULD SOMEONE LIKE THAT EVER BE A BROTHER TO ME THEON STOP IT YOU IDIOT HE ALWAYS THOUGHT YOU WERE HIS BROTHER SHUT IT HE LOVED YOU THE WAY YOU WERE OF COURSE HE DID DON'T DO THIS TO ME STOP IT. Welcome everyone to Robb/Theon, the only ship where even when they're separated and supposedly hating each other not only they don't (seriously Robb in the second episode? He so doesn't *hate* him), but they still kill you with feelings. Congrats.

Jesus, I just looked at the wall of text I just left - it seems like I watch this show just for Theon but I swear I like mostly everyone else too. /o\

I also feel like the point about Jaime and Brienne is ridiculously short in comparison to Theon but I mean, the only thing I have to say about Jaime and Brienne is squeeing about how flawless it was, so.

13) Also, this episode was the proof that if Talisa isn't there I enjoy everything a lot more. Just saying.

14) Oh wait I was forgetting: NOOOO MORMONT DDDD: I WASN'T READY FOR THE RIOT AT CRASTER'S TO HAPPEN SO SOON *WEEPS WILDLY* also Dolorus Edd is the best character ever seriously just put the Wall people in charge of everything yes. And SAM.

SAM. SAM I JUST - I LOVE YOU. HE SAVED GILLY! <3 HE SAVED THE BABY TOO! AND AFTER HE WAS SO DEJECTED LAST EPISODE! Just seriously I just want to go give him a hug and tell him that he's the best person ever, can we just? I vote for Sam in charge of everything including the other black brothers in charge of the rest, thanks.

15) In conclusion: overall this probably was the episode I enjoyed more this season because there wasn't anything I could get angry about (90% of the time = Talisa, the other 10% = the sexposition). Hopefully they're keeping on like this? For now it's been a lot better than S2 was, I'll keep on saying it until they make me change my mind. *crosses fingers*

16) But Theon, fuck everything. *cries*
 
 
 
The Cleaverage: castielkel_reiley on April 22nd, 2013 06:55 pm (UTC)
2. RIGHT? I don't remember that from the book, but they are making a HUGE (no pun intended) deal about Pod. Is this relevant to anything?

I think you're right, sorry.

3. NO. OK. Good. I mean, I remember him telling of how he was cut, but not the part about him having the sorcerer in a box.

4. I kind of love Tywin, too. I mean he's evil, but he's a smart evil.

5. I am loving Margaery in the show much more than I did in the books.

6. I'm hoping they'll skip over most of her sitting around and ruling.

7. Were Rickon and Osha still with them? Or did they go off on their own already?

11. JAIME AND BRIENNE ♥ ♥ ♥

12. Iwan Rheon congratulations on the creepy face - Yeah. I take back my earlier doubts about his casting.

14. SAM! In the book, was the baby born at this point? I can't remember, I thought it came later. But, ok, after this is when he stabs the thing with the obsidian, right?

We're almost ha;f-way through the season... are they going to split book 3 into 2 seasons? Doesn't seem like they can fit it all into one.
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> jaime/brienne 4.0janie_tangerine on April 22nd, 2013 07:53 pm (UTC)
2) Dunno? Seems to me like they're playing it for the lulz, but I hope it eventually makes sense...?

... Damn, I want to be wrong. :/// I never wanted to be wrong so hard in my life.

3) I remember the story too but wtf about the guy in the box? That's Ramsay levels of creepy O____O fine, Varys *is* creepy, but not at those levels...

4) Yeah exactly - like, I should detest him because y'know RED WEDDING, but he's too smart of an evil dude for me to dislike him totally. Like, I can totally respect his evilness.

5) In the book I really don't care either way (about any tyrell except Garlan to be honest) but I'm liking her well enough here. Not at crazy levels, but.

7) As far as I remember Rickon disappeared with Summer and Shaggy like in episode two and Osha stayed with Bran and everyone was like 'okay cool the wolves will bring him back at some point' :/

11) IKRRRRRRRRRRRR BABIEEESSSS ♥ asdfghjkl

12) Hahah he's good at that. Very. Very. Good. I'm mildly terrified of what happens this season D:

14) Yep, he's supposed to kill the wight soon :D uuhhhmmmmm I can't remember either, I think the baby was born already when they got to the Wall though. No wait I think the baby was born because I remember Gilly worrying about Craster killing the baby or something like that. Then again I just want Sam the Slayer ;)

As far as I know they're putting some of book three into S4 but they could also start putting stuff from affc in it - the RW is episode nine and they haven't cast Oberyn so I'm tempted to think that everything from the Purple Wedding onwards happens in S4 except for Jon becoming Lord Commander. Or well, that's what I think, but the trailer showed wildlings climbing the Wall, Jon and Ygritte will obviously do the deal soon and Sam is killing the wight soon as well. And since people will react to the RW a lot worse than they reacted to Ned dying (imo) they must put something in the finale that would at least balance shit for the audience and have something good happen with someone named Stark. And Jon is the only candidate for that since becoming LC would make the audience happy, so...
The Cleaverage: Winchesters of the Deadkel_reiley on April 22nd, 2013 08:09 pm (UTC)
3. I mean, I can see the point they were trying to make, and I can't say I'd totally blame Varys for it, either. In the books, Varys is all "for the good of the realm" and all that, not interesting much in his own ends.

5. In the books, I only liked her b/c she gets Cercei good in the end.

7. Really? WTH?! I must not have been paying very close attention.

11. If they keep of this perfection, I will almost forgive any horribleness in other areas.

12. NGL in Misfits he started out with serious creeper potential, but then they went and make him a hero. I kinda want to see him be super evil now.



I was wondering if they were going to end the season on the Red Wedding. That would be a shocking season finale.
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> theon 2.0janie_tangerine on April 22nd, 2013 08:34 pm (UTC)
3) Yeah that? Idk Varys doesn't strike me as *that* kind of creepy, but oookay. After the Talisa horror nothing seems too OOC by now...

5) Lol good point XD

7) Yep. It was like fifteen seconds of scene though.

11) My thoughts exactly ;)

12) Lol you'll have an interesting time this season then ;) it's just, I'd be totally fine with him showing how good he is at playing evil but I DON'T NEED TO SEE MY POOR BABY SUFFERING D: (theeeooonnn ;____;)

Nah it's nine - I mean, the title is the rains of castamere, so... While it would have worked for a finale if they went there I think they'd have a riot of viewers on them D:
A life in progress...pandora_nervosa on April 22nd, 2013 10:02 pm (UTC)
Been gone from LJ for a while and am so glad someone on my flist is into GoT!

Ok, have dinner on the stove, but here's mine and Roger's theory on Jon Snow:

He's Robert Baratheon's son from Ned's sister (can't remember her name atm and prob spelled Baratheon a bit wrong but am too busy to care).

At first Roger thought Jon might be Robert's son by some wench and I pointed out to Roger that more than one person in the book comments on how Jon Snow "has the look of a Stark about him". So I thought...sister (fuck me, I still can't remember her name).

Eh, our two cents.
The_Crazy_Freakthe_crazy_freak on April 22nd, 2013 11:33 pm (UTC)
Sorry for butting in. ^^;

But I just wanted to say that about 99% of the fandom believes his parents are Ned's sister (Lyanna Stark) and the late prince Rhaegar Targaryen. Not sure if you've read the books, but it's definitely the conclusion I came to as well after reading them.

Also, if I remember correctly, GRRM said that Jon's parentage will be revealed (possibly in the next book already, but not sure about that).
The_Crazy_Freakthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 12:07 am (UTC)
First I just wanna say that this episode was literally perfect omfg! x33 I can't say I found many faults with it. I agree with you completely - they're doing a MUCH better job than they did with season 2.

2) Yeah, uh, I don't get the Pod thing either. In the previous episode, I felt the "whores didn't accept payment" thing was some LF ploy or something, but it doesn't seem so? Pod was simply that amazing? Well ok then. There go two completely useless scenes in episode 3. As for Ros, I don't think she ever liked LF (I think she kinda started hating him after that incident in season 2 after Joffrey's men killed that baby - Robert's bastard - and she was upset, but LF was basicaly threatening all passive-aggressively that if she didn't get her act together and start satisfying clients again, she's gonna pay), so I think it's logical that she isn't on LF's side. As for why she'd tell Varys of all people... I seem to recall an episode from season 2 where Varys visited her and it didn't really show much of their conversation, but I get the feeling that that's when they started sort of... working together? In the sense that Ros became one of Varys' spies, but not like his regular spies - she's more of a "casual" spy. Idk though. Maybe I'd have to rewatch that season 2 episode, but I don't remember which one it was.

Ugh, NO to the whole "Ros takes Jeyne Poole's place" thing. I still don't think they could make it work, so I'm holding out hope that you're wrong.

3) That was MOST DEFINITELY not in the book! I pretty much went O__o I don't think that's something Varys would do, tbh. I always got the impression he doesn't want to get his own hands dirty. He's the guy that pulls the strings, but doesn't commit the acts himself. But then again, maybe this is a different case, since it's personal. Idk, I always kinda appreciated Varys for his cleverness and mysteriousness (after 5 books, I still don't know what his true agenda is - I don't buy all that "I just wanna serve the realm" stuff), but sorcerer thing really put me off. Yes, what he did was fucking horrible and he should answer for his crimes, but not with whatever Varys has in store for him (a quick death would suffice).

Random fact: I solved this really long ASOIAF character quiz this one time (it was supposed to be more accurate because it was so long) and I got the result "You are most like Varys." And I was like "what the-?!" O__o I think that's pretty inaccurate, dear lord.

4) I loved that scene, because it wasn't just Tywin laying it out straight to Cersei, but she was laying it to him as well ("The legacy you love more than your actual children" - accurate as hell) But I love all the scenes between Tywin and his children because it just shows how fucking dysfunctional they are as a family.

5) And my love for Margaery (and the Tyrells in general) keeps growing. xD Omg, that scene where Margaery starts waving at the crowd and Joffrey just looks at her all confused. It's like he's never seen this before. There was a post I reblogged of it on Tumblr and it had the perfect description of what was probably going on in Joffrey's head at that moment, lmao! xDD Also, Margaery's pretense is incredible. The way she looks all fascinated by the gruesome details (and even laughs along with Joffrey at the notion of a woman being eaten by a dragon in front of her own son), but the second Joffrey turns around, she gets all serious ( probably going "ugh, that little psycho. >__>")

1/?
The_Crazy_Freakthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 12:46 am (UTC)
6) Omg yes, THE DANY SCENE WAS AWESOME!! Fucking hell, I got actual chills!! I'm not even kidding. And yes, Missandei, Jorah and Barristan were SO turned on - they were freaking smirking, all amazed at the same time. There was also this one scene (after the Unsullied started banging their spears in response to Dany asking them if they wanted to follow her) where Jorah and Barristan look at each other for a while and smirk/smile and the first thing that came to mind was YOU. xD (it's because of that Jorah/Barristan comment in your last review) lmao! Either way, I thought that was a great ending to the episode. (even though last week I thought the Ramsay reveal was gonna be the ending this episode, but oops, I couldn't be more off)

7) Well, it was nice to see Bran again, but the scene itself didn't have any sort of progression story-wise, so I didn't see the point of it being included. But it made me emotional because of Cat's scene last episode ("I'll never see them again" and now Bran is seeing her in his dreams! ;__; ) But omg yes, I hope they do Jaime's dream. I don't think there's a big chance of it happening, but who knows, right?! :D

8) While I would have liked to see more of the Tullys (especially because they only appeared in one episode so far), I didn't miss Robb (let alone Talisa) at all. Ah well.

9) Well, I never cared that much about Sandor, but I felt for him in this episode. He's always been judged based on his family name and his brother, even though he's nothing like him. =/

10) Speaking of Olenna, I loved her conversation with Cersei. The bit about mothers doing all they could to keep their sons away from the grave. It sounded so much like a subtle threat and Cersei seemed to get it too. (I mean, maybe that's just me seeing stuff, because I know what happens) Also, the bit where Cersei's all "and yet they're the ones in charge" (the men, that is) and Olenna goes "which is ridiculous, if you ask me" waiting for Cersei's reply. And then Cersei obviously not trusting her enough to say she agrees. Seriously, am I the only one who got the feeling that Olenna (while she probably agrees with that statement) said that last part just to see what kind of a reaction she'd get from Cersei? She probably knows how much Cersei hates the patriarchy (because it means she'll never have the power she wants, she'll always be viewed as less competent simply because she's a woman).

11) I don't even think I can add anything to that. BECAUSE PERFECTION!!! I seriously can't with Jaime and Brienne. All their scenes are so perfect, I can't find ANY flaws! I am so fucking happy they're doing this storyline justice because it's one of my favourites (if not THE favourite) from the books and seeing it brought to screen so perfectly brings tears of joy to my eyes. :DDD x333 You've said it all, tbh.

14) Oh my god, that scene. I wasn't prepared for it at all. I mean, I knew it was happening in this episode, but I WASN'T PREPARED. DD: I actually cried a bit when Mormont died. ;__; The scene was great though. The onnly way it could have been more perfect was if they kept the part where Sam wants to stay by Mormont's side even though he's practically almost dead and then Mormont (in his last breaths) tells him (orders him?) to go to the wall. But I would have been a fucking mess if that happened, so maybe it's better this way. God yes Sam though!!

2/?

EDIT: It's way too late (3 am) for me to talk about Theon right now, so I'll respond to that part of your review tomorrow. All I can say for now is that his scene made me cry and the conversation between him and Ramsay was everything I feared it would be (emotional, ugh ;__;) and more.





Edited at 2013-04-23 12:52 am (UTC)
The_Crazy_Freak: Theon 1the_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 09:18 am (UTC)
Ok, now that I'm (semi) functional, I can get on with the Theon part.

First of all (and I have to say this now because I always forgot to add that part in the previous comments), YES TO THE AWARDS! Alfie Allen definitely deserves all of the awards, hands down!

Oh god, the monologue... ;__; I seriously can't. It was worse than I thought it would be. I expected it to be emotional (Theon opening his heart and pouring everything out), but not THIS emotional! He fucking cried a bit, I CAN'T! ;___; I totally broke down at that. And with the way it ended... I mean, I obviously knew Ramsay was gonna lead him back to the torture room, but I WASN'T READY FOR THE SCENE AT ALL. ;__; DDD:
We finally got to see Ramsay's psycho face though. I'm not gonna lie, that gave me some chills - the way he looked (that fucking smile, urgh :SS ) all satisfied and brimming with pleasure when they were putting Theon back onto the cross. O_o Well, I'm gonna say this for Iwan Rheon - he sure can play psychopaths. Not that I was worried he wouldn't be able to (he was so creepy at the beginning of Misfits), but still. Even though he's like a snuggly kitty IRL, the guy was MADE to play psychos, seriously.

Wait, what? That wasn't OOC at all! Are people even watching the same show? I actually think it was very IN character of him. The thing is, he's always been torn. He's always had two different families (two different fathers). You have to consider the fact that he was a young boy when they took him. If they took him when he was older, he probably wouldn't have developed these feelings for the Starks. But a boy of only 8 still needs to belong to someone (their parents) and needs that feeling of being loved and protected. Since that was taken from him, he turned to the best "replacement" he could find - the Starks. Yes, they were his captors, but I don't think he had the full notion of what that really meant until way later on AND they actually treated him nicely and provided him with pretty much everything the actual Stark children had (in all aspects - except for the "we'll cut your head off if your father rebells again" part - they WERE a surrogate family to him). But I think as he grew older, he became more aware of the "cutting yourh head off" threat and what that actually means - that he's not their adopted son, but a prisoner. So he became even more torn. He wanted to hate them, but he couldn't just erase that sense of family he got from them when he was younger. (I think there's a big difference between WANTING to hate them and ACTUALLY hating them, btw)
Also, if you take into account the previous conversation between Theon and Ramsay - where Theon says that he heard the torturers talk how his father (Balon) knew what they were doing to him, but let them (and while Ramsay mumbled that he didn't know if that was true, Theon definitely took it as "it's true"). So imagine you get tortured and then find out that your own father knows but pretty much doesn't care... Of course you're going to feel that your real father is someone that has always been fair and good to you (excluding the looming threat) and probably wouldn't allow the torture if he knew.
So I think was perfectly in character. And it broke my heart. ;__;

OMG, DON'T EVEN TALK TO ME ABOUT THE 'HOW COULD SOMEONE LIKE THAT EVER BE A BROTHER TO ME' PART! ;____; He holds Robb in such high esteem (and himself in such LOW esteem; baby please don't ;__;) that he feels they are worlds apart and that he could never even come close to the perfection that is Robb. ("hif life fits him better than his clothes" ;__;) I can't. He basically just wanted to be equal to Robb (and possibly wanted to DO him too, ahem!) but in his own eyes he's just this massive failure that could never compare. ;___; The Theon/Robb ship is painful. Not that there are any painless ships in ASOIAF (well, except Jaime/Brienne, they're perfect) but still, this one seriously hurts. :(
And if your headcanon about the RW and Theon comes true... I will bawl like a lunatic. :|





The_Crazy_Freakthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 09:19 am (UTC)
I had to split this message because I went over the word limit. OTL

"it seems like I watch this show just for Theon but I swear I like mostly everyone else too" <-- Same tbh. But idk, I feel like Theon feels just come pouring out, possibly because I know how much the majority of the fandom hates him, so it makes me more protective of him.

Have you seen the preview for the next episode, btw? They didn't show any Theon, so maybe we don't get to see him next episode (which would actually be a bit of a relief, because I'm not ready to see him get tortured again yet). But YAY, DAVOS IS GONNA BE BACK! I need me some Davos right now. x3
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> robb/theon 3.0janie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2013 09:36 am (UTC)
IKR seriously next time someone goes 'wait you like that dude but didn't his sister's song say that he smokes weed' I'm just gonna go and answer that if he keeps on acting like this he can smoke all the weed he wants, regardless that she wrote that song when he was seventeen *facepalm*

AND I KNOWWW I CAN'T WHEN HE WIPED THE TEAR OFF HIS FACE I JUST - THEEOOOONNNNN ;________; COME HERE LET ME HUG YOU ;________; and haha I was so ready for that scene, including being spoiled for one month about it, THAT I MUTED THE AUDIO BECAUSE I COULDN'T WATCH IT OTHERWISE HAHA GO ME. (Nope.) But yeah Iwan Rheon is *good* at this. And lol I've never seen him in anything before but then someone told me that he also was a musician so I went like 'oh really' and looked him up on youtube. And there was like some live videos shot at a radio I think and HE LOOKED LIKE SO ADORABLE ANYONE WOULD HAVE WANTED TO SQUISH HIM and then I watched that scene and I went like 'oh jesus this guy can act but THIS DOES NOT COMPUUUTEEE' /o\

Idk the main argument is that he shouldn't be that self-aware at this point and that it was some simplification put there to gain audience sympathy, which... well, I pretty much agree about the last part because that was the last occasion they had where the guy would be able to speak his own mind and if they wanted to have a last try at making the audience sympathetic it was either here or never, but I totally agree with you - I don't really think it was OOC. Especially within the show's characterization - maybe it'd have been too early for book!Theon too but what do we know of what went on with him during ASOS, he might as well have started thinking the same then. And yeah ugh poor guy, he'd need a time travel machine and a good therapist or ten by now ;____; and yeah I think that he *wanted* to hate them but he never managed to. Ffs when he was in WF during ACOK he was constantly thinking of wanting to rule the way Ned Stark had, hating them? Sorry baby but you never could. ;)

BLEARGH I KNOW UGH IF I HAD ANY REASON TO DISLIKE BALON MORE DDDD: also because in the book I hadn't seen him giving a shit either, and even if he knows in the show I'm also pretty sure he wouldn't have lifted a finger and uuughhh THEEEON ;___; *WEEPS TORRENTS* ... no, really, there isn't a sort of valid reason why if we don't count the legit psychos ie Ramsay/Gregor Balon is totally the person in those series that I loathe most. *cough*

SHFDJSKGHJKFDG I KNOW I CAN'T EVEN WHEN HE WAS LIKE 'HOW COULD HE BE A BROTHER TO *ME*' I JUST WANTED TO GO THERE AND YELL AT HIM THAT HE WAS AN IDIOT AND THAT HE DIDN'T EVEN NEED TO GO THERE BECAUSE ROBB DIDN'T EVER *NOT* CONSIDER HIM A BROTHER SIIIGGGHHH the most painful thing about those two idiots is that if only it got across that Theon never had to prove Robb anything and that he *already* had his respect/admiration/whatever IT WOULDN'T HAVE GONE DOWN SO BADLY ;_____; (shh Theon totally wanted to do him too) and haha. I maintain that nothing is horrible/hurtful/more tragic than Robb/Theon. Seriously. Once upon a time I thought that Supernatural was the top of suffering and that Dean/Castiel was the most horrible painful ship that ever was. Now I watch it and a) I feel ridic optimistic, b) that ship seems like SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS AND UNICORNS JUST BECAUSE IN COMPARISON TO ROBB/THEON IT IS. ;___;

... on one side I hope I'm wrong, but it's usually the kind of instance when I'm right. And they have an episode after the RW to show the reactions. D: also haha yeah I think that the Theon feels are just more than the others even if I have feels for the others. And yep, since everyone hates him I just have to be the PR.

DAAAVOSSS *___* and yeah tbh as much as I <3 Theon.. I'm totally okay with a week or two of having a break from the torturing, I'm not sure I can take it NOW. D:
The_Crazy_Freak: Stannis/Davosthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 10:31 am (UTC)
Ugh. It's like some people have never even heard of the fact that people sometimes do stupid and/or douchebaggy stuff in their teens and then they grow up and CHANGE. Seriously, I used to be so much douchier when I was 16 or so. Not to mention I used to fight with my sister all the time (it often ended in physical fights as well) but now she's one of my best friends.
I once saw this post on Tumblr that irritated me so fucking much. This person only just discovered the Lily Allen song and wrote "looks like Theon is as big of an asshole in real life as he is on the show" - I wanted to punch something. >__>

Well, tbh, I was still kinda thrown off guard by that sadistic smile. O_o I swear, those few seconds we got of his face were scarier/creepier than an entire collage of his creepy faces from Misfits put together. So yeah. :S

Oh, ok, I guess I can sort of see it. But like you said, show!Theon has still been pretty self-aware so far. Well, I'm actually not sure if Balon truly knows. I'm still confused whether the torturers (and Ramsay) were deliberately lying just to mess with Theon's head/emotions even more, or if it's actually true. Though I'm leaning on the true part because it was the ironborn (Balon's men) who betrayed him and gave him to Ramsay (in exchange for their own freedom or something?) so he must have known. Unless Ramsay killed those ironborn despite the factthat they gave him Theon. But even if he didn't, would they really return to the Iron islands and told Balon the truth ("oh, btw, we totally betrayed your only living son and heir and gave him to this sadistic psycho who is probably having his wicked way with him right now. you're cool with that, right?") ?? I mean, in the books I got the feeling nobody really knew where Theon was. It's like he just vanished from the face of the earth and everyone thought he was dead (this was coming from Asha's POV, so I assumed that's what Balong, along with everyone else on the Iron islands pretty much thought). So I'm still not sure if show!Balon knows or not. Agree with the part where I hate him, though. >_>

THIS CALLS FOR A STANNIS/DAVOS ICON. :D

Edited at 2013-04-23 10:33 am (UTC)
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> davos/stannisjanie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2013 10:45 am (UTC)
Exactly. But other than that.. so she says that he spends his time playing video games, smoking weed and wanking in his room, which exactly what 80% of my male friends did when they were that age. And if they didn't do all three they surely did at least one, so it's not like if you're a seventeen year old dude and smoke weed/waste time playing videogames you do shit that NO ONE ELSE ON THIS PLANET DOES, wtf? It's just that you don't get songs written about it - also yeah exactly, everyone is douchier at that age, just leave the guy alone and stop bringing that song up when we're talking about the fact that he actually can act. Sigh. Also because from interviews he seems like the sweetest person ever so just leave that song alone D:

Oh I was totally thrown off guard too DDDDD: ;________;

I mean I get where they come from but I still think that it wasn't OOC. Also I'm not too sure of whether Balon knows or not, but... I mean, your only son and heir was at Winterfell and then disappears from the face of the Earth and you don't even bother looking into it? I got the impression that they never really actively looked for him from the iron islands, but at least Asha seemed to feel somewhat guilty about that in AFFC, everyone else seemed to be like 'ah well he's probably dead peace who cares', which.. ew. :/ I don't think that Ramsay would have killed all the others if Robb's orders were to let them go as far as they got Theon and I don't think that they want to openly defy orders at this point. But other than that.. blergh, I just can't take him and his 'THEY MADE YOU THEIRS' crap. I mean, who rebelled in the first place? It's your fault that he spent ten years at WF, at least own up to it. :/

STANNIS/DAVOS ICONS YESSSS :DDD
The_Crazy_Freak: Theon normalthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 11:59 am (UTC)
Oh, I meant to say that as well, but somehow during my rant I forgot. xD And it's not just guys who that stuff, sometimes it's girls as well. Seriously, they're freaking teenagers. Get over it.
Yeah, I know! I don't watch that many interviews, but I've seen about two of his and he was so nice! And he actually read all the books (at least that's what I've gathered) which instantly makes me appreciate him even more. I mean, I do understand the actors who haven't (or don't want to) read them (which is the majority of them) because they don't want to know what happens yet since that could influence their acting, etc. But I still feel it's better if you DO read the books, because you get a greater insight into the character and get the characterization better. Yes, stuff is going to be changed in the scripts, but the general characterization should stay the same. Reading the books shows dedication to the role (and also possibly the fact that they actually ENJOY reading them because they're amazing books), so like I said, it makes me appreiate those actors more (like Alfie and Kit). But maybe that's just me.

Omg, that scene in the series where Theon actually lays it on him ("I was your boy and you gave me aways like some dog!" ;__;) was so heartbreaking (seriously, his face and broken voice! ;___;), not to mention accurate.
Oh, I got that feeling too. It seemed to me that they just waited for him to return on his own and since he didn't... "oops, must be dead or something". So yeah, I don't think Balon cared much that Theon was gone/dead, but that's not exactly the same as knowing a sadist was torturing him. I think if he knew that Ramsay had him (whose reputation I'm sure he knew, since pretty much everyone did), he might try to save him (or maybe I'm just giving him too much credit?). Well, at the very least ASHA would have done something if she knew he was Ramsay's prisoner. Not that NOT CARING WHERE YOUR SON IS AND NOT CARING IF HE'S DEAD isn't despicable, though.
Well, as for Robb's orders... he doesn't know Ramsay has Theon. So if they're hiding THAT from him, then I don't think they care about his orders much. They could have killed the ironborn and then burn the place (which they did), so people wouldn't even know (what's a few more burnt bones?). They all think Theon is responsible, anyway.
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> theon 2.0janie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2013 08:18 pm (UTC)
Yeah I mean why is everyone that uptight about it? It's.. nothing that doesn't happen? Everyone does stupid shit when you're a teenager and tbh if you smoke weed is still better than smoking cigarettes if you ask me...

After that interview that came out today I feel totally and 100% sure that he totally gets Theon ugh ;___; ALFIEE ;__; and yeah he's got it down pat and yeah generally I agree with you, though tbh the antics of Nikolaj Coster-Waldeau candidly admitting that he makes his mom read the books and then sum them up to him will never fail to crack me up, lol. And yeah I think Richard read them all too? *snuggles them*

YES IT WAS, and clearly did it change anything re Balon? 'course not. HOW CAN YOU HATE THEON AFTER THAT LIKE SERIOUSLYYYYY D: and yeah I have the same impression too, which... like, okay, I guess that Balon had just distanced himself because he never expected Theon to come back, but... like, the dude was planning to go to war and he didn't know that Theon would come back so not only he was possibly going to sacrifice him AND then he doesn't even try to look him up? :/ and at least Asha *had* taken the hassle to go to WF and offer Theon to come with her (WHY DIDN'T YOU DO IITTT) which makes her automatically better in my book, but like seriously Balon just makes me want to slap him forever.

Yeah good point, though they do tell him later... idk, I feel like killing all the ironborn would have been too much effort and it's not like they needed to do it anyway, but since we never saw what happened who knows. D:
The_Crazy_Freak: Theon normalthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 08:39 pm (UTC)
Well, not sure if I completely agree with you there, but I'm speaking from (semi) personal experience, not scientific facts.

Yeah, I saw that interview too. I always felt that Alfie totally gets him too! (I also feel the same about Nikolaj and Lena, but I digress) Well, I didn't mean it in a way "oh, I only like those cast members that have actually read the books". I pretty much love all of them equally, but the fangirl in me still gets a bit excited whenever one of the cast members is like "oh, I'm currently reading the 5th book. I can't wait to see what happens," (kinda quoting Kit there, lol). Oh, I didn't know about Richard. Yay! :D And oops, I realized that Alfie actually hasn't read ALL of them (but well, he read half and Theon wasn't in two of them anyway) - it was in today's article. Omg, I agree on Nikolaj though! I laughed so hard when he said that. xDD
Oh, and that last question of the interview... omg, I am legit scared now as to what's gonna happen. :SS D:

"the dude was planning to go to war and he didn't know that Theon would come back so not only he was possibly going to sacrifice him" <-- Ugh, yeah, that's true. I kinda forgot about that part. >__>

I don't think it would have been THAT much of an effort, though? There was such a small number of them at Winterfell. Also, since when has Ramsay cared about "effort" much? I'd guess burning Winterfell to the ground requires effort too. As long as he'd be able to cover his tracks (hide it from Robb), he'd probably go for it. I mean, I'm not saying he DID kill the ironborn, but you never know with him. Although I don't think that matters all that much, anyway (so I don't even know why I started this debate, lol).
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> theonjanie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2013 08:50 pm (UTC)
Ops that probably came out too simplistic XD like.. this is also all personal experience, but other than the occasional weed 99% of my friends all smoked cigarettes and I knew some people who happily smoked a packet each day when they were fifteen, which other than making them constantly sick was also a total pain for me because I don't smoke and I totally detest the smell, so at that point I'd have been happier if they had stuck to the occasional weed (clearly I don't advocate smoking two joints each day, lol) rather than smoking all those cigarettes - at least if you smoke a joint each month you don't risk giving yourself an emphysema as much. But I generally wouldn't go advising a massive consumption of either. ;)

I'm totally fearing the supposed breakdown scene. I still maintain is Theon-learns-about-the-Red-Wedding... :/ and hahah that thing with Nikolaj's mother never fails to crack me up XD I think Richard went and read them all early? I'm half-sure that he had read up until the RW when S1 was done airing anyway. (Which is also why I think that the only reason I totally don't detest tv!Robb is that Richard totally gets the character and is a good enough actor that he can salvage it unless the script is just horrid.)

Yeaaaaah Balon = Not Parent Of The Year. Then we wonder why Theon thinks Ned was his real dad.......

No you actually have a point XD no clue about it though - I think that we'll never know. Though if he killed them... congrats Balon, your son and thirty men disappear in WF and you don't even send someone to give a look around the place? XD sigh. You'd have made a lousy king in the first place ;)
The_Crazy_Freak: Do Not Want - Edthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 10:29 pm (UTC)
Ah, I know what you mean. My personal experience was with several classmates that became completely addicted to weed (one in particular) and couldn't get out. It got to the point where the weed interfered with his life (for example, he would skip classes to smoke weed because he wanted/needed it so badly and when he DID go to class, he was always stoned, half-lying on the table). It was even getting hard to hold a conversation with him because he'd draw the words out and mumble them at the same time which made it hard to understand. It goes without saying that he started failing all his exams as well. He also pretty much ruined our prom class photo. It's traditional that the entire class takes an official prom photo together before the ceremony starts and this guy was running late. Our class was first on the list for the photo, but we said were were gonna go last since not all of us were there yet. We waited for him as long as we could (people tried calling him but he wasn't picking up) but then we had to take the photo because the ceremony was starting, so we basically took it without him and have an incomplete photo. When he finally showed up, we asked him why he was late and he went "I was smoking weed". So one of his best friends asked him if he could promise her not to smoke weed for the rest of the night (the rest of prom, basically) because we wanted to spend time with HIM, not some version of him that is high off his rocker (and doesn't even know what he's doing). "Can you promise me that?" she asked him. But he flat out said "no". It was painful to watch him spiral into the addiction. He failed the last year of high school and had to re-do it. We (and the teachers) tried to help as best as we could, but nothing was working.
So yeah, nothing like that happened to those friends that smoked cigarettes, which is why I think if I had to pick one, I'd pick cigarettes (thought I'd rather just pick none). I mean, it doesn't bother me if other people smoke (around me, even), but it's not something I'd personally do because it doesn't compel me.

Oh wow. You could very well be right. :| It actually makes sense, because when you think about it... Alfie said that there was some stuff going on in his own life that made him have an actual breakdown, so it pretty much had to be of a psychological nature (because I think we can safely say Alfie wasn't being physically tortured IRL). It's possible that someone close to him died or something and if you put that together with the Red Wedding (where Robb - who we all know how Theon feels about (this week's episode was additional proof of that), and a bunch of other people die horribly)... I think it's entirely possible? O__o DD:
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> jon/samjanie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2013 09:45 am (UTC)
6) IKR THEY WERE THE EPITOME OF TURNED ON.

... also hahaha WELL THEY'RE MY CRACK SHIP OKAY ;) seriously if I'm associated with Jorah/Barristan I'm totally cool with it ;) ;) but yeah it was an awesome scene :DDDD

7) ... ;____________________; *weeps some more* idk maybe it's going to make sense later? I'm just cool that they're showing dreams at all because they haven't done much of it until now and I really REALLY want to see Jaime's - I think it's going to be an abridged version though, they can't show Arthur Dayne and Rhaegar and so on, but they could do it with Tyrion/Tywin/Cersei and still have Brienne in it. I mean I'm totally cool if they change it around as long as they keep the basics.

8) I totally did *not* miss Talisa. If she isn't there my enjoyment skyrockets, apparently. ;) But tulllyyyyyssssssss MY TULLYS I MISSED THEM SO MUCH D:

9) i kind of have a thing for Sandor (mostly book!Sandor though, show!Sandor got the short stick because apparently half of his story had to be thrown onto LF which I still don't fucking get) so it was nice to see him acting.. well, the way he's supposed to. And yeah poor guy, first his brother ruins his life and then he has to answer for his fuck-ups and having people say that they're alike? Yeah. :/

10) Oh yeah totally that was awesome. And I thought that Olenna was doing the subtle threat too but I'm not so sure that Cersei *got* it entirely. or well, I won't be sure of it until we see the aftermath of Joffrey's death - if she doesn't even suspect the Tyrells for a moment then she didn't get it. But yeah Olenna is totally trying to play Cersei the same way Margaery is playing Joffrey except that Cersei probably *got* that part.

11) I KNOWWWW. I KNOW. HJGKJFDGHKJHFKJDHGJFDKGH. THOSE TWO. MY BABIES. THE ONLY RAY OF HOPE IN THIS STUPID SERIES. ;_____; and yeah as a storyline is my second-favorite after Theon's adwd stuff, so JUST YES ALL OVERRRRRR

14) I thought it was gonna happen later DDDD: MORMONTT DDD: I kinda cried in the book too D: I'd have still liked if he had a couple of last words for either Sam or Green though - mostly because they cut that part where he said that he wanted Jorah to take the black and that he forgave him which a) was heartbreaking, b) well, it'd have been nice, but I see why they cut that.

SAM ON THE IRON THRONE THANKS.
The_Crazy_Freak: Puppy Samthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 11:03 am (UTC)
6) Well, I don't usually crackship much, but this is the kind of crackship I can get down with. :P The show totally made them shippable, lol. xD

7) Yeah, I think that dream was very significant when it comes to Jaime (and his relationship with Brienne), so I'd be crushed if they didn't show it. But idk, they've been doing so well with this storyline that it's hard for me to believe they could go wrong with it (judging from the previews, they did the bath scene and the bear pit looks great as well, so I have a lot of faith that they'll do everything right, idk). Btw, it's not that I thought the conversation about the Mad king wasn't going to happen (it's a VERY important conversation), I was just afraid they might not do the whole bath thing (that they'll have the conversation elsewhere, like in a room or something). So when I saw it in the previews I was like HELL YEAH! x3

9) I didn't pay him that much mind in the books. I feel like I need to reread them, anyway. I feel like I'd be able to appreciate him more the next time round when I DO actually pay more attention, because he IS an interesting/complex character.

10) Well, I thought Cersei's paranoia has already started kicking in with the subtle threat, but maybe it hasn't. I'm probably too influenced by the books, so I'm seeing some things that aren't even there yet. xD

14) Omg, I totally forgot about the Jorah part from the books! Yeah, it would have been great if they showed it.
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> jaime/brienne 2.0janie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2013 11:26 am (UTC)
6) Shh it's a glorious crackship! ;) ;)

7) Also he can't exactly go and say I dreamed of you if they don't show it, right? Seriously, IT'S EVERYTHING I EVER WANTEEED D: and yeah they seem to actually be getting it totally right so I'll just trust them on it. As stated it doesn't have to be *exactly* like in the book, but it's totally adaptable. Also YESS THE BATH I'M TOTALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO BRIENNE TENDERLY CATCHING HIM WHEN HE'S FAINTING >___>

9) He's a great character :D and well, okay, fine, there was also the part where Sandor/Sansa was kind of my first ship so I'm attached to it, but regardless of the shipping he's ridiculously interesting and I just wish that they had treated him better in the show because Sandor being pushed to the side would totally be in my top five Huge Problems with S2.

10) Oh she probably is on the way to the paranoia, though I'm half-sure that it definitely kicked in when Joffrey died, so we aren't getting it in its full glory until the next season at least.

14) ikr ;______; *bawls*
The_Crazy_Freakthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 12:09 pm (UTC)
OMG, YES, THAT WAS A GLORIOUS SCENE!! x333 I guess the only thing they could have shown more of is Jaime calling her "wench" because I feel like it's important in the development of their relationship. Because if I remember correctly, the first time he went "Her name is Brienne," was when someone called her "wench". And it just shows that development so clearly - he used to call her "wench" in a degrading way, but now when someone else does it, he gets irritated because he knows she is much more than a "wench". She's fucking Brienne of Tarth, ok?! Also, I know this isn't happening for a few seasons yet, but I can't wait for the scene where Red Ronnet calls Brienne "a freak" in front of Jaime and he socks him so hard he knocks some of his teeth out.
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> jaime/brienne 3.0janie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2013 08:19 pm (UTC)
IKRRRR *WAITS EAGERLY* and yeah come on people have him call her wench, pleaseeee ;____; the thing with the names is one of my favorite things about how their relationship evolves so please do iitttt. also HAHAHAHA THAT SCENE WHERE HE PUNCHES RONNET CONNINGTON WAS THE MOST SATISFYING THING EVER. I hope as fuck that they keep it in the show, omg.
The_Crazy_Freakthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 08:48 pm (UTC)
Yeah, seriously, if they somehow cut that scene (the Ronnet punching), I'm going to be furious! I totally fangirled when I read that part in the books. I mean, I don't usually condone violence, but in this case... oh well. :P xD
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> night's watchjanie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2013 09:59 am (UTC)
2) I'm.. yeah, mostly perplexed. Like, wth. If it had something to do with LF all right, but... okay. Apparently Pod is just *that* good? Though I don't get the 'he's *that* good so we're letting him have free fucks'? Like since when if you're a prostitute you give out free fucks just like that especially in a middle age setting? Idek. And while I do get the mechanics ie why Ros wouldn't like LF... I just don't get the general point. Like, LF escaping with Sansa was something that not even *Sansa* knew when she left KL, but now at least Ros, Shae, Varys and Olenna know? I just don't generally get what they're trying to do, also because everyone seems to know what LF is up to in the show when his strength in the book was that no one had a fucking clue of what he was up to for real, so I'm just generally confused.

The only thing that still makes me doubt my theory is that they should have Ros *and* a totally random new person posing as Arya which would mean more complications (it's not like Theon can save two people, right) :/ anyway I totally hope I'm wrong too. I just want the show to prove me wrong for good. D:

3) Oh good, for a moment I went like 'what the fuck I can't have forgotten *that*'. And yeah me too - tbh it seemed more of a Ramsay thing to do? And while Varys can be creepy, he's not *that* kind of creepy? :/ and same - or better, I think that deep down he has a greater agenda then 'I want this this and this for my own benefit', but.. meh, it might also be that according to me the best for the realm would not necessarily coincide with LET'S RESTORE THE TARGARYENS REGARDLESS OF WHICH TARGARYEN. (Or: while I do like Daenerys, I think that she's better off khaleesing rather than ruling. And anyone directly related to Aerys shouldn't definitely rule on their own or with all the power, but that's my unpopular opinion.)

... hahahahaha I think it has to be the same I took, because the result for me was DROGO. And my basic gpoy in the entire series is SAM. I don't think that I share one basic trait with Drogo, lol. I had taken two others ages ago where I got Sam and Bran which actually make sense, but Drogo. Pff. I think that quiz is rigged ;)

4) Oh she totally was laying it on to him, but I really don't think that Tywin gives a shit either way. He's a horrible person and I totally loathe him as a human being but I have to respect his greatness in being a horrible person, if it makes sense.

5) Joffrey you need some lessons in 'how to have the crowd eating from your hands' class stat ;) but yeah Margaery is seriously so good at this I can't even. And I still keep on cackling if I think about how it's going to end.
The_Crazy_Freak: Puppy Samthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 11:28 am (UTC)
2) Now that I think about it, you're right... It's totally ridiculous that Ros, Shae, Varys and Olenna know about LF's plan. O_o Like, if Sansa escapes after the PW fiasco, Varys is gonna KNOW it was probably LF who did it! Wouldn't he tell Tywin, Cersei (etc) to free Tyrion? That way he wouldn't have to bust him out with Jaime. It's gonna make zero sense. And what are they gonna do with Shae? In the show they made her pretty much loyal to Tyrion (unless she's that great of an actress, idk. her feelings for him seem genuine to me?) so I'm still not sure how they're gonna make her testify against him because at this point, I'm pretty sure she'd just give her life for Sansa and Tyrion. Idek anything anymore.
They're actually fucking up a lot of great potential with the LF thing. I think the TV audience would be so much more mindfucked if they had absolutely NO idea what LF was planning with Sansa and then all of a sudden (after the PW), surprise! LF was in cahoots with them. I also don't understand how Olenna is gonna get involved with LF since she's against him now. Like, what's gonna all of a sudden make her change her mind and cooperate with him on the PW? Why not just cooperate with Varys instead?

Exactly, it's something Ramsay would do, not Varys. And I'm totally with you on the "greater agenda for his own benefit" thing. Simply because (like you) I don't think his actions have exactly contributed much to the good of the realm (they've often done quite the opposite). Well, I don't think Daenerys would be a bad Westeros ruler, but I feel like there are some people that are better for the task. Though out of the people who are ACTUALLY vying for the throne, I don't think any of them is perfectly fit to be ruler, tbh. Not even Stannis who has done the most "for the good of the realm and not simply his own benefit" so far.

Omg, Drogo! xD Well, that was the only quiz I did, so I don't know what result I'd get if I did any more, but at the beginning I felt like I was most like Arya (but later on I figured out that I probably wasn't, lol). I think Sam is probably the closest to me too, yeah. :P

I know what you mean about Tywin.
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> jon/samjanie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2013 08:27 pm (UTC)
2) ikr? like, everyone knows? it seems a bit too much O_O I have no clue where they're going with it though, so maybe they're majorly changing something, but at this point if/when Sansa disappears EVERYONE is gonna know where to look, right? Also the entire thing with Shae is perplexing me too so either they're changing that so that she's loyal to Tyrion and testifies after being forced into it or the fallout is going to be a lot more awful than in the book where it was kind of obvious that she was just looking for herself. And yeah this thing about explaining that LF is behind everything isn't exactly working in favor of the uber mindfuck that they could/would have pulled if they kept it link in the book.

Atm I'm mostly on team Stannis *if* Davos is around - like, while I think that Stannis is still the best currently in the run because he's the only idiot in there who cares about the *realm* and not about his personal power/who doesn't want the throne because OMG YES DO WANT TO BE KING, I'm still not sure that I'd trust him entirely to do a good job if Davos isn't there to counsel. But a Stannis/Davos ticket would be the ideal for me as things are. I do like Dany but after ADWD I'm mostly feeling like she's better at khaleesing/that she's happier when she's actually conquering places instead of ruling them, if it makes sense. That said I still think that they should put Sam in charge of everything and it'd be ideal ;) and in all truthfulness I always thought that Jaime would have made a better king that 99% of the people in ASOIAF but that's like never going to happen ever so

I AM A CONQUEROR WHO LIKES TO PUT CITIES TO THE TORCH! .... lol you're talking with someone who can't even look at guns, I'd be the worst Drogo ever. My basic gpoy is probably a Brienne/Sam mix because mine and Brienne's experiences with men pretty much match 100% (including the dude saying 'I wouldn't ever go out with you NOT EVEN PAID'), but I wish I was a tenth as badass/awesome as Brienne. For the rest I'm basically Sam. I like books, I like cats, I like listening to music, I detest weapons and the sight of real blood sickens me, so XD
The_Crazy_Freak: Stannis/Davosthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 09:27 pm (UTC)
1) Yeah, but how much can they really change in that regard without fucking up a major storyline? As for Shae, those are kind of their only two options, I guess. Unless they plan on Tywin having her killed (and the testimony never happens) - so Tyrion has one more reason as to why he hates his father and kills him. I don't remember, but have they actually mentioned Tysha on the show yet?

2) Well, if Davos gets to be there to tone down Stannis' occasional ruthlessness, then I guess I'd be ok with him ruling. Because while Stannis is just 8and works for the good of the realm), he's also pretty ruthless and unforgiving. I feel that a ruler must have a sense of both justice and mercy - he has to know when to apply one and when the other. And I think Stannis lacks the mercy part. I do feel that he's on his best when Davos is with him, though.

The thing with Dany is, I think she's way too idealistic (I hope I used the right word). Take the freeing of the slaves and closing of the fighting pits for example. Yes, that's all great in theory, but if you look at the actual consequences of those actions... She thought she was doing good (the ideal thing), but in truth, it brought more harm than anything. Countless former slaves had nothing to do now, so they either starved or turned to stealing. The former owners started rebelling (fighting/killing the slaves etc). While I do think if you want to reform the system, drastic changes need to be made, but she didn't think any of it through. That doesn't make for a very good ruler.
However, I feel that what she lacks is experience in that field (maybe someone to guide her, if she was willing to listen). After she gains some, I feel like she could be great.

I think Sam is the opposite of Stannis in that regard. I feel like he'd be great with being fair and merciful, but when it comes to making the tough decisions (somewhat ruthless even), he wouldn't be able to do it because his heart is too soft for that kind of stuff (and I love him for it, btw! x3) I actually think Jaime would be a good king too. :P

I feel like Jon would be great at it, though. I think he's done great as Lord Commander (the crows stabbing him aside, ahem). He (like Stannis) is actually working for the good of the realm and he has that right amount of merciful vs. ruthless IMO. I feel like so many fans want Jon on the throne, though, that I feel this answer is a bit cliche, but when you think about it, it's true.

Davos FTW though!

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. Ugh, some guys are truly despicable! >__>

the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> brienne 1.0janie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2013 09:41 pm (UTC)
No clue whatsoever? Either they're planning a huge change or it doesn't make sense. Tywin killing Shae before she even testifies would work too since Tyrion will only hate him more - I suppose the can find someone else to testify at that point. Whatever, I won't cry if they change it because tbh in the book I was absolutely indifferent to Shae generally, so whatever. Also mmhhhhhh er maybe in S1? I think I remember Tyrion mentioning having been married once but I absolutely can't recall when/why/the circumstances.

Yeah exactly - Stannis is pretty bad at being merciful but he actually *listens* to Davos and when they're together they make a pretty good team so while I think that Stannis on his own would be the least bad option, Stannis + Davos would actually be awesome.

Yeah same. She needs someone to advise her and teach her to look at the entire picture - I don't think she has bad intentions (same as Rhaegar tbh - I don't think he had bad intentions when he ran away with Lyanna but I highly doubt that he was planning to cause a war. That said HE COULD HAVE IMAGINED THAT RIGHT) but she needs to learn that doing the supposedly right thing doesn't necessarily mean no consequences. Then again now that they have another Targaryen in the picture I have no clue where GRRM is heading... but yeah Dany could be good if she learns to do it better, though it still seems to me that she was a lot happier in book one than in the following ones regardless XD

Hahah yeah exactly. But Sam would obviously have Jon for his Hand so.. shit gets balanced anyway ;) and that said I think that Jaime would be good because a) he doesn't give a shit about the whole scheming thing, b) he's not power-hungry (that's Cersei, not him), c) he's a lot more fair than they give him credit for. But then again he's never going to get there anyway, so. ;)

And oh yes Jon would be awesome at it as well! :D I also think he's the most likely candidate tbh - I'd be totally fine with him ruling actually.

thanks <3 but well whatever, that guy was a jerk even at the relatively young age when it happened =_='' sometimes when I read on forums that 'Brienne's chapters are BOOORING' - thing which is mostly said by men - I'd just like to ask them if their problem is that they recognize themselves in most of the jerks she runs into, lol.
The_Crazy_Freak: Puppy Samthe_crazy_freak on April 23rd, 2013 11:00 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I never cared much about Shae and I don't care about her in the show either. Oh, I think I remember something along those lines too.

Well, in theory, Aegon should be the perfect king, because he's basically been groomed to become one all his life, right? But I don't know that much about him yet to actually decide on that matter. So far, he seems a bit rash and too eager to prove himself, idk. Speaking of Aegon though, do you think he really is who he says he is, or is he a pretender? I'm only asking because a lot of people seem to think he's an imposter. But I personally haven't found any evidence of that (so far), so I think he's genuinely Aegon.

A Jon/Sam ruling combo would be the best, tbh! :DD

As for Jaime - EXACTLY. Plus, he actually gets shit done. They were laying a siege on Riverrun for ages, but as soon as Jaime shows up, shit gets done - Riverrun is theirs.

Ugh! >__> Brienne's POV was one of my favourites. Speaking of the fact that it was mostly said by men, men are also usually the ones to say that Jaime definitely has no feelings for her beyond respect and/or friendship. I used to hang out over on the forums at Westeros.org and some of the comments of those men really bugged me. One of the top resons why they believed Jaime couldn't have feelings for Brienne was the fact that she wasn't "beautiful" and so that automatically makes it impossible for Jaime to love her or whatever. >__> Whatever. Give Jaime some more credit. He's not as shallow as all you fucking pricks. (Seriously, that's what I would have told them had the thread not been locked yet.)

There was an even worse comment (once again coming from a man, obviously) that said "Why does Brienne always go for the most attractive guys? First Renly and now Jaime. They're both described as one of the most attractive men in the realm. She should pick someone more realistic for a woman like her." I wanted to throw my computer out the window at that point. >__> Not only did this person completely miss the point and the reason why Brienne had feelings for them (NOT because they were hot or whatever), but it's also incredibly disrespectful to believe that someone you don't consider hot can't fall for someone that IS hot. Like, everybody has eyes. And everybody's taste is different, anyway. It's like this guy was saying "he's hot and she's ugly. he's obviously never gonna go for her. so she should just stick to ugly guys. everybody knows hotness and ugliness doesn't go together, herp derp." UGH!! >__>
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> brienne 3.0janie_tangerine on April 24th, 2013 12:27 am (UTC)
I think that Aegon is genuine tbh - I had my doubts during adwd, but there are two basic things that sealed it. First: Varys told Kevan that he was the real deal a moment before killing him and I don't see why he should have lied since it's not like Kevan would have told anyone. Second: going with Rhaegar's prophecy and all the related stuff, you need to have three heads of the dragon aka three Targaryens, one of which is Azor Ahai. One is Dany, I think it's obvious that the latter is Jon, if Aegon wasn't real GRRM should have another secret Targaryen show up and.. Well, JON is the secret Targ and was all along, if they go and give us another totally new one it'd pass from OMG to seriously WTF, so... For me the evidence for genuine trumps the evidence for not genuine ;)

Exactly! Jaime Lannister: the only dude in Westeros who actually gets shit done in three seconds ;)

Bleaaargh I never hung around westeros.org too much - I only read the ADWD chapter threads when the book was out because people on there actually kept their prophecies straight and remembered shit I had totally forgotten so they were helpful, but after I read someone stating that Jaime was their favorite but he'd have been okay if he died with Brienne so we would get rid of 'the most boring and useless POV in these books' I went like 'okay not going here anymore if I want to survive an aneurysm' -_- Brienne is actually in my top three POVs and it was my favorite in affc so I generally don't get the BORING, but when people also go like 'pfff she's ugly Jaime can't be attracted to her' or worse the 'she should go for less attractive men' I also get the urge to throw the computer out of the window. Jaime is obviously nowhere near as shallow as them in the first place ;) but the thing that mostly bugs me is that they don't say that.. Idk, about Tyrion and Sansa (like I read someone complaining that she was being an upstrung bitch because she hadn't slept with him and couldn't see his *inner beauty*) so if Tyrion could/should have a beautiful lady loving him in spite of him not being attractive and if he can be attracted to beautiful girls why not Brienne? Jfc at times I want her to get together with Jaime also because for once the ugly girl who's not going to turn into a beautiful girl with some make-up gets the hot guy that she actually *wants*. But other than that it generally pisses me off because as stated I've had pretty much the same experiences as her with men and while I never was OMG SO HOT I'm not exactly terribly bad off - I just wasn't particularly omgsoveryattractive during middle/high school and I got more or less the same crap for years, and it just makes me facepalm and weep for their total shallowness because really, if they just had an idea of how it feels they'd shut up about her chapters being *boring* and possibly stop saying that ugly women shouldn't get the hot partner but ugly men totally should. Blergh. One day I'll write articulated meta about this entire thing xD but seriously considering that I've rarely seen anyone actually getting how things work for you if you're not a conventionally attractive woman and GRRM totally did that right I think that he'd be ashamed of that kind of fanboys, since they aren't even trying to get the point he's making if they think that Brienne's chapters are a waste of space. Sigh.
The_Crazy_Freakthe_crazy_freak on April 24th, 2013 12:46 am (UTC)
Well, I never even had doubts in the first place, so I never exactly understood why people thought he was fake. But yeah, thanks for the answer. :)

Well, I don't really go there anymore either, but I used to. "Inner beauty"? Um... no. If you compare him to Brienne, he doesn't have inner beauty - that's how huge Brienne's inner beauty is. And yeah, the double standards make me sick. Like I said, I would have written rant on that (not that it would have gotten into their thick skulls, anyway) but the thread was already locked.