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15 October 2011 @ 03:14 pm
supernatural 7x04 'defending your life'  
Okay, let's do this a bit differently.

The good:

1. JO! :DDD I was so glad to see her back. And I'm really, REALLY happy that she wasn't really harboring bad feelings. And the whole being dead brings a perspective thing. And while I never was that much into Dean/Jo... UGH THAT LAST SCENE when she touched his face. AW. . ;________; and he would have died more or less the same way she did? Well, would've been fitting. Still. THAT LAST SCENE. *weeps*

2. SAM WINCHESTER. COME HERE AND LET ME LOVE YOU. I don't know what the heck was with my surplus Sam love this week but... SAM. <333 first: he looked pretty good and it was nice to see him looking good. Two: LAWYER!SAM, OMG. (And I lol-ed that he watches The Good Wife. Quality TV, Sam Winchester is your fan. Oviously Dean went with Ally Mc Beal instead which just makes me think that we'd be bffs in RL if Dean was real. He obviously started watching it because of Jon Bon Jovi. *cough*)


4. The flashbacks. OH S2 I MISS YOU.

5. Osiris was good fun. The trial itself would/could have been done better/have been longer though.

6. That Sam let the baggage go. SAM, YES, AT LEAST SOMEONE GOT IT. He's right - you can't go bring around baggage forever or it crushes you. I'd just like it if Dean got the memo.

The bad:

7. I honestly feel bad for Dean's liver. If he doesn't quit that kind of drinking and if he doesn't get killed by a leviathan, the series finale will end up being Dean dying of cirrhosis or liver failure...

8. The lying. Ugh. Maybe it's the vampire porn having spoiled me, but if Dean keeps it a secret that he killed Amy until the mid season finale I'm going to punch a wall. We went down this road in... uhm. S2, S3, S4, S5 and S6. Okay, it was Sam keeping secrets in half of that, but seriously, having Winchesters keeping secret isn't the key to keep this show fresh. I hoped that it'd get out but.. yeah. I obviously shouldn't be that kind of optimistic.

9. Dean, I love you, I really do, but either you have a good, cathartic cry or you have to destroy some other car. Also while I never had a problem with Dean's angsting, this round I'm just wishing he'd fess up. He's wrong. He should own to it. And avoid drowning himself in alcohol while he does the repressing deal.

The ugly:

10. Okay, this is probably something that will be ugly just for me, but... while I had the vague impression last episode, this one really gave me serious S3 flashbacks.

Meaning: S3 is my least favorite. It had some awesome individual episodes, but as a general thing I was ready to quit if S4 didn't start good. Point is, Dean & Sam themselves have never been my individual favorite character. I always liked Dean better, but my favorites used to be John first and Ash later. After the S2 finale, S3 for me was basically Dean being a jerk, me deciding that I was liking Sam a lot better and wishing that they'd just cut the whole not saying things to each other crap, if Bobby wasn't in and we weren't talking about the Christmas ep., the finale or Jus in Bello my attention span got pretty short, and the one reason why S4 really grabbed me was that they dropped the formula and changed it enough to renew things while not losing the original focus completely. Oh, and I got a new Favorite Character that wasn't a favorite just because the original one had died and the favorite had become the second.

So, this episode for me was: me wanting Dean to just quit with the angst and own to his crap (beginning of S3: identical), liking Sam a whole lot better even if in theory my favorite Winchester is his brother (entirety of S3), DEAN KEEPING SECRETS (worked in S2, in S3 I was ready to be done with it), conversations in a field by the side of the road where Dean keeps his mouth shut about his problems (aka: most used trope in this entire show for the first thee seasons). Aka: total S3 flashback.

Problem: if Sera's deal is doing this entire season bringing the show strictly back to basics and go over ALL OF THAT ALL OVER AGAIN... er. It might be a problem for me because I got tired of that by mid-S3. I love Sam and Dean, I really do, but if they bring this show back to they hunt a monster, they angst, they don't talk about it, everything goes to shit in the midseason finale/the last five episodes, then I'm not so sure that I'll like it that much. I loved S2 HARD (a lot more than 1 or 3) because while they had the MOTW scheme, they had a mytharc and they had a bunch of supporting characters. I'm not seeing that happen here. I don't want to go negative when we're still at episode 4, and overall this is being a lot better than that terrible pacing at the beginning of S6, so I'll just see what happens, but I can't help hoping that this is not the general feeling that will stay this season. Because if the S6 finale/S7 premiere meant closing the door to all of the things that made me go from liking this show to LOVING it from S4 onwards... I was hoping that it didn't mean THAT. I really wasn't. I'm also mostly unspoiled so maybe I'm worrying for nothing. Ugh. It might also be that I had expected that they'd go in a certain place and they didn't so maybe it's just me being disappointed, so whatever. I'm not disliking anything per se right now, so I'll just wait and see where it goes.

10b. Okay, I guess this goes too. Dear Sera: if you're aiming for the Butch & Sundance feeling, I'd just like to remind you that 80% of that movie was made of Butch, Sundance and a certain person named Etta Place. It was three of them, not two. And B&S wouldn't have lasted half of the time they did without her. Think about it.

10c. No, it's not just about Cas. If I had made reaction posts during S3, you'd have heard me complain about Ash/Ellen/Jo/the Roadhouse/John Winchesters every ten seconds. I need secondary characters. Also Cas isn't dead, so whatever. I live in believing that he's still around somewhere until the finale arrives and I'm proved wrong for good.

Aaand that was it. Meh, from this it seems as if I hated it. But I really didn't. It was a good episode and I loved parts of it. And the ugly it's just me having impressions which I hope are totally wrong. I'll just cross fingers.
feeling: worriedworried
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the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural dean 2.0janie_tangerine on October 15th, 2011 01:25 pm (UTC)
YES. THAT. Ugh by now it's becoming... redundant? Geez, THEY'VE DONE IT FOR YEARS. One would think that also since they hey, GREW UP A BIT, they'd just quit it since it's half of the reason they got fucked all over whenever they did it. Especially when the season started with 'let's not keep things from each other'. It bored me when it wasn't old and it's boring me now, also because until it was John's bombs dropped before he was dead I can see why you'd keep them secret, but this? Blah. Dean should go and cry on Sam's shoulder and admit that he was an idiot. :/
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the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural + nick cave = otpjanie_tangerine on October 15th, 2011 01:33 pm (UTC)
Idek I'm feeling like they're going with that part of the fanbase that was like 'WE MISS MOTW EPS/EARLY SEASONS/D&S on their own' etcetera, but going back to basics is different from repeating yourself all over again. That was good in S1/S2 but they're past thirty or near it, it's not even believable that they wouldn't have learned anything from all the crap they went through. I don't even want S2 back - they couldn't re-do it at this point. I hope that it's just a question of a couple episodes. Sigh. I started loving this show when they switched plot device, I want to keep on loving it. :/
Giuliae0wyn on October 15th, 2011 03:14 pm (UTC)
Ho poco tempo in questo periodo, perciò non posso lasciare un commento più lungo... sappi solo che ho letto il post e sono d'accordo su praticamente tutto ;)
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural + nick cave = otpjanie_tangerine on October 15th, 2011 07:16 pm (UTC)
*high fives* ;) no problem, capisco perfettamente *sprofonda in montagne di appunti e piange*
cassiopeia7: Sam&Dean: thinky thoughtscassiopeia7 on October 15th, 2011 06:18 pm (UTC)

Oviously Dean went with Ally Mc Beal instead which just makes me think that we'd be bffs in RL if Dean was real. He obviously started watching it because of Jon Bon Jovi. *cough*)

Okay, so I DID hear an Ally McBeal reference! \o/ I'm not going crazy, yay! (But wait! Jon Bon Jovi was on Ally McBeal?! Admittedly, I saw only a handful of episodes, but . . . I MISSED THIS?!? NOOOO!)

And I totally agree that Dean needs to let the Amy secret go. The longer he holds on to it, the worse things are going to get. :(

Finally, I so, so, SO agree with everything you said in 10c. Show gets a bit . . . claustrophobic . . . if it's JUST about the boys. We need the secondary characters to open up that unhealthy vacuum the brothers have going. Also? Cas is definitely still alive -- as you say, I'm believing it until something happens to prove me wrong.
the female ghost of tom joad: fishisms ftwjanie_tangerine on October 15th, 2011 07:14 pm (UTC)

lol totally! It was Dean making it too, which only made me glee. And that said YES! GO RE-WATCH S5 OF ALLY NOW! He was the plumber/babysitter/boyfriend/fixing-everything that repaired like her leaking sink and then babysitted her daughter and stuff. AND HE SANG TOM WAITS SONGS. He was in like eight episodes? Lol he actually was the reason I checked that show out. It was brilliant. ALLY I MISS YOU.

I mean, didn't they see how it went... the last twenty times? One would think that they'd learn not to keep secrets, but.. yeaaaah.

I need more people. Idk, I just start feeling claustrophobic too if it becomes the Sam & Dean and sometimes Bobby show only :/ it worked good in S1, but I have reserves about it working now. Ah well, we shall see. Also CAS IS SO NOT DEAD FFF. I don't care if I'm being delusional, when I have no 100% proof that someone I like is dead I don't buy it. ;)
Fangirlage like WHOA.: SPN // S&D - I Got Youhopelessfangirl on October 15th, 2011 08:27 pm (UTC)
JO! :DDD I was so glad to see her back. And I'm really, REALLY happy that she wasn't really harboring bad feelings.

Me too! Given the premise, I was afraid she was going to come back as more vengeful (like a manifestation of Dean's guilt), but I'm glad it was actually just spirit!Jo with her own perspective on things.

The trial itself would/could have been done better/have been longer though.

Oh good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that way. I really liked the concept but its execution was a bit odd. Like, a little too light-hearted somehow even though the subject matter of the trial wasn't. Idk how to explain it.

I honestly feel bad for Dean's liver. If he doesn't quit that kind of drinking and if he doesn't get killed by a leviathan, the series finale will end up being Dean dying of cirrhosis or liver failure

Seriously, that is totally coming to a head soon because holy crap, dude, you have a serious dependency going on there. o_o

I'm am all for this Dean-needs-a-big-cry business. I was really hoping that we'd get to see final witness!Amy (even though I knew Jewel Staite wasn't going to be in this ep, but maybe we could see the back of her head or something and Sam's reaction, idk) and that all of this would be out in the open. It kind of negated the whole "you should let go of your guilt" thing when he's still harboring that secret. =\ Plus, that would have been the perfect catalyst to exposing how fucked up Dean really is inside right now, and how much he needs some kind of help to deal with everything. Seven seasons and everyone still bottles everything up, why don't they learrrrrrn. x__x
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural deanjanie_tangerine on October 15th, 2011 08:43 pm (UTC)
Yeah it was good that it was.. well, HER. I'd have hated it if it had been Dean's guilt personified or something like that. But I so so loved her being back.

Nah, not just you. Considering that it was the fulcrum of the whole thing, it should have been longer/a lot less light-hearted? But yeah I totes get what you man and agreeing 100%.

Eeeep. O_O whenever I see that I'm like 'Edgar Allan Poe had nothing on Dean Winchester'... seriously. He should quit it NOW, if even bartenders realize it. He needs to go to AA or something soon.

YESSS EVERYTHING THAT YOU SAID. I'm just.. idk, this whole thing about keeping secrets and bottling shit up is starting to make me go all like 'DESPAIR'. :( It's been seven seasons, I can't even buy 100% that they'd STILL do that. Well, that Dean would, Sam at least apparently got over it. At some point Dean will have to crack, but they can't drag it on forever. He needs to have that cry and have it SOON. possibly while burying his face in Cas's coat - ooops sorry. Uhm. Not really? Idek. I mean seriously when was the last time he was actually happy, Frontierland? And he hadn't been for a while before then. I think he needs another trip to the 1860s..
The Cleaverage: dean/caskel_reiley on October 15th, 2011 08:41 pm (UTC)
1. JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I was always more Dean & Jo big brother, little sister kinda thing, but yes, that scene and the one before she dies where he kisses her goodbye? BREAK MY HEART! (i totes think they should bring Jo back to life for good...)

2. my love for Sam is sky-rocketing this season, trufax (also, for the 1st time ever... his hair looked good - that baby of theirs is going to have some major fucking hair)

6. Dean is NEVER going to learn that one (until after he dies for good, probably)

7. I did like that they really addressed his serious drinking problem, though

8. THIS.


10. Apart from "conversations in a field by the side of the road where Dean keeps his mouth shut about his problems (aka: most used trope in this entire show for the first thee seasons)" (which, AHAHAHA SO TRUE!) we are opposites, b/c I really liked s3... it might be my favorite.

Although, I do agree, they can't go back to how it was in s1,2,3 - the characters need to have grown just a little! PEOPLE CHANGE!

I got accidentally spoiled for a later episode - which I am UPSET about. But upset about getting spoiled, not the actual spoiler. So I'm holding out hope still for this season.

Secondary characters FTW! Please stop killing them all off? PLEASE?

(PS I love your ep reviews, b/c I don't really discuss this show with anyone else, save Blue in emails)
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural jojanie_tangerine on October 15th, 2011 08:52 pm (UTC)
1. Totally with you on that! I liked it a lot better as a brother/sister thing, but I did shed my tear during Abandon All Hope and I did now :((( I MISS ALL THE ROADHOUSE PEOPLE OKAY.

2. That kid will be searched for hair products commercial. XD and seriously? I hadn't loved Sam this hard since.. yeah, S3 probably. Not that I ever disliked him, but I have moments of uber skyrocketing love with him while with Dean my love usually remains steady, lol.

6. At this point I'm not hoping for it anymore. ;)

8/9: I KNOW?

10. Lol I didn't exactly -dislike- S3 per se, but S2 is my second-favorite overall and coming after that it just didn't deliver 100% for me. (Also they had just killed off my favorite character ever aka Ash - or, I always pick them wisely - and I spent it being like 'ugh WHY NO ROADHOUSE'.) Anyway I know re the conversations in the fields? XD but yeah apart from my S3 issues (which are weird subjective issues anyway), if they want to keep it fresh they can't hope that they go back to the early scheme and that it works. THEY GOT THROUGH AN APOCALYPSE! They changed, as stated! I just hope that it's just me being paranoid.

And yeah, secondary characters are usually always my favorites. And you can't go back to two, sometimes three characters after what they did with S4/5/6 for me but ew, let's see. I vote for a general bringing back to life thing. Also it's like episode four, I won't go banging my head against the wall just now.

(hee, thanks! It's a pleasure to discuss. ;) )
The Cleaverage: spnkel_reiley on October 16th, 2011 04:01 am (UTC)
Dear show, please stop making me want to punch Dean in the face! He is my favorite and I do not want to be mad at him.

I marathoned s1-5 over the summer before 6 started, so 1, 2 & 3 kind of run together for me. 2 is definitely where the show hit its stride, b/c a lot of 1 was boring. I think I just really liked the dynamic in most of s3. S4&5 also run together for me, I get mixed up which eps are in which season.

Characters I miss the most after Jo and Ellen? CHUCK AND BECKY! omg bring chuck and becky back!
Kros_21kros_21 on October 15th, 2011 10:14 pm (UTC)
secondo me ormai la cosa di Amy finisce così. Questa era l'unica occasione per Sam per venirlo a sapere. Dean alla fine ha mentito di nuovo, non vedo come la cosa possa saltare fuori in futuro. Dean non lo dirà, Sam non lo sa e vissero tutti infelici e scontenti. ahahahahhahahah
the female ghost of tom joad: j2janie_tangerine on October 17th, 2011 07:04 pm (UTC)

Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh penso pure io che finirà qui ma per una volta non potevano farla saltare fuori? Almeno per cambiare.. XD
morganlucas41: sam dean suitsmorganlucas41 on October 16th, 2011 06:30 am (UTC)
Loved reading your thoughts as always!

I hear you re: them rehashing old storylines. I really don't want them to do that, either, and I agree that I enjoy the show more when there's supporting characters, etc. I love that Sam and Dean are the focus of the show, and Dean's my favorite character, but I like having other characters, too.

And I really don't want Dean to lie to Sam again, because as you said, they've done this already. Personally, I feel that they should be past it by now.

The thing for me is, though - that Dean has never really dealt with all his crap. He's just buried and buried stuff. And I feel like he really needs to deal with all that ASAP, and there were hints this ep that maybe he will - and I would like nothing more. So if that's Dean's storyline for this season, I am all for it. I don't want them to repeat themselves, but I don't think they've ever really gone there with Dean and resolving all his issues. (Not that I think they'll resolve ALL of them, but some progress in this regard would be welcome.)

So that's kind of where I'd like it to go. Focusing on the brothers is good, and the MOTW eps are okay, but - yes, I would definitely like it to move forward and not just repeat old storylines we've done a hundred times.
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural castiel 4.0janie_tangerine on October 17th, 2011 07:10 pm (UTC)
It's not as if I don't want S&D to be the focus, I'd be an idiot otherwise, but I really hope that it's not just the two of them anymore because seriously, it'll become claustrophobic and way-too-depressing. Siigh.

SO MUCH WORD. They did the lying thing both ways ten times already - can't they just move on? With everything they went through we have to go through it again? Siiigh. Idk I just feel like they could use some imagination in that sense. :(

And I feel like he really needs to deal with all that ASAP, and there were hints this ep that maybe he will - and I would like nothing more.

Hopefully? I so hope that too - also because he's seriously at the end of his rope. If he keeps on drinking that much he's going to die of things other than monsters attacking him or leviathans... *is worried* He has to SOLVE that though, not angst until episode eighteen. Sigh. Let's cross our fingers...

And yeah, totally agreeing with you. I'm okay with all of that if they can avoid repeating the same stuff and possibly if they introduce someone else new.. or that they hurry up showing us that Cas isn't dead
morganlucas41: 503 d/c walkingmorganlucas41 on October 17th, 2011 08:21 pm (UTC)
I agree. I really feel like, after everything they've been through, trying to save the world and fighting for humanity, and family - if it's just just the two of them (even with Bobby too) then that's just...sad. I feel like after all this, they deserve more than that.

I hear you re: Dean too. But I don't know...can he really solve his problems, and more relevant, will they show him doing that? Just a start is all I'm asking for, really. I think we're on the same page in that regard.

Yes please, I hope they hurry up with that.