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23 April 2012 @ 01:08 pm
game of thrones 2x04, garden of bones  
Okay, this review is flooded with book spoilers so I'm going to spoiler-cut them, but still thread carefully.

1. Point the first: the Robb thing is leaving me very, very, very baffled. Or better: Robb isn't leaving me baffled at all, he's being himself. It's what they're doing with Girl Whose Name I Didn't Catch But Should Not Be The One She Gave Him that leaves me perplexed.

[if you know who Jeyne Westerling is click away. Spoilers for ASOS.]Soooo, uh. I hope that this girl is Jeyne and that she's trolling Robb big time while giving in to her nurse instincts and happily amputating feet. I don't really mind that she's a bit more sassy than she was in the books if it's her, but.

She can't be some random girl from VOLANTIS (wtf, why anyone from Volantis would even be in the Westerlands) because otherwise why the fuck should he marry her? Show!Robb is a lot more savvy than his book counterpart, and the book counterpart married Jeyne Westerling and threw away the Frey alliance and proceeded to DOOM HIMSELF because having sex with a lord's daughter when she's a maiden and leaving her behind is ~dishonorable~. The end. and he had sex with her because of Theon's betrayal but LET'S NOT GET INTO THAT The point is that he's his father's son. Now, if this isn't Jeyne but Some Other Girl From Volantis, she's no highborn lady and no one would give a damn about her maidenhead one way or the other. If Robb has grief driven sex with her after Theon betrays him and then marries her, he isn't committing a political suicide because of ~honor~ (which well, hi, suits with the character) but he's committing a political suicide without any darned good reason to. And sorry but while Robb is an honorable idiot, he isn't completely fucking stupid. Especially in the show version where he doesn't have the excuse of being sixteen.

Shortly: if it turns out that it was ~Jeyne~ in disguise and it goes the way it's supposed to then fine, if they're changing that part completely...uuuuuuh. I won't like it.


2. Only other thing that I didn't like: LF telling Cat that she could trade her daughters for Jaime. Who read the book knows what I'm talking about.

3. Wait, also Brienne had no lines. Sigh. More, please.

4. Catelyn is flawless. End of story. Gosh when she saw Ned's bones ;__; Michelle Fairley, how so good? Also I'd have liked if she had put that dagger in LF's throat *cough* but eeeh.

5. Seeing Margaery put down LF was glorious.

6. Cat being like 'if you two were my sons I'd bang your heads together' at Stannis & Renly = YES THANKS. Ffs I get that Stannis isn't the most likable person ever but Renly had the least valid claim of the entire group of self-declared kings and while the show hasn't expanded on the sucky treatment Stannis got from both Robert and Renly previously, if I were him I'd be rightfully pissed.

7. Mel's shadow baby was creepy. Also I need to never see any labor on any show ever again - ugh.

8. DAAAAVOS YOU'RE SO VERY LOYAL TO A FAULT AND YOU LOVE STANNIS SO MUCH LET ME LOVE YOU. ♥

9. Harrnhaal was perfect. ALL OF IT. ALL OF IT. The Brotherhood mentions! The people from the Brave Companions! Arya and her prayer ;___; and Gendryyy and Hot Pie ;___; also, it confirmed me the one reason why I can't really completely hate Tywin: he as a fucking brain and he uses it, differently from his bannermen. Seriously.

10. Tyrion pwning Lancel = yes. YES. Also woah, the guy playing Lancel manages to be prettier than Finn Jones, I keep on thinking that he's a woman whenever I see him for one second.

11. Peter Dinklage, awards.

12. That scene where Joffrey had the KG beat Sansa was - ugh, every bit as painful as I thought it would be. Also UGH SANDOR'S CLOAK ON HER I just - okay. I can't possibly deal with the feelings.

13. Okay so, point made, Joffrey is a pro sadist. And as some people said, is Ros the only whore in KL? *facepalm* the fact that she's so prominent is making me seriously consider a crackpot theory that popped up in my head ages ago while talking to lenina20 I thin, which... well, I sincerely hope that I'm wrong about it because it would be a fuck up of huge size. :///// But it's all book related so I'll shut my mouth.

14. Iain Glen is too hot for the desert, too hot for starving and too hot for anything. And that's sadly all I have to say for now about Dany's storyline.

15. Don't get me wrong, I liked it but in comparison to the flawlessness that was last week's episode this one kind of paled in comparison. Also needed more Brienne.

16. And I had more things to say but class calls. Sigh.
 
 
feeling: blahblah
on rotation: people around me having lunch
 
 
 
(Deleted comment)
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> theon 2.0janie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2012 04:10 pm (UTC)
ADWD SPOILERS for anyone who wants to scroll







It's always the 'Ros might get the Jeyne Poole storyline' since she's the one having horrible experiences while being trained by LF, and since Jeyne Poole is nowhere it's not like there's someone else from the North to whom Theon has any sort of emotional attachment that they can use for his adwd stuff. But there's the part where no one could pass Ros off for Arya, so. I just hope I'm wrong.
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the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> theonjanie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2012 09:40 pm (UTC)
I guess she could work for Sansa, but it still makes not much sense plot-wise. :/ And yeah, word on that - I liked the whole parallel between original Sansa and Jeyne both ending up there :/ Though if they really do try to pass Ros for Sansa then I really need to see how they think to pull it off. ;)

Though tbh my main worry about it, regardless of the rest, is that if Ros becomes Jeyne they cheapen half of what was going on with Theon in that part and I'm not sure I can be much okay with that. I wrote someone a novel about it in a comment below, but it's mostly that when Theon saves Jeyne he gets the (partially) redemptive gesture because for someone like him it's a completely selfless thing to do as they knew each other but never had much of a relationship at all and surely they didn't have sex. It's one of the few points you can use to argue with people who still hate him after ADWD and are like 'yeah well he got through some well-deserved shit (???) and he's still the same stupid self-centered asshole that he was before deep down' which is just ludicrous (and it also shows that they skimmed because seriously, no), so.. meh. Idk. I guess we'll see, but the more Ros we see the more paranoid I get that I might be right. ;)
Big Bag of Weirdgehirnstuerm on April 23rd, 2012 11:48 am (UTC)
Shortly: if it turns out that it was ~Jeyne~ in disguise and it goes the way it's supposed to then fine, if they're changing that part completely...uuuuuuh. I won't like it.
I suspect it was Jeyne in disguise. This thing is too important to change it completely. I could imagine that he'll marry her, because she's fierce and sassy and not because of that "Oops, she comforted me with her ladyparts, ergo a marriage is in order, because it's the ~honourable thing to do" thing... which would destroy the neat analogy of Robb and Ned the honourable idiots, but it might be more fitting for Show!Robb. We'll see!

Re: Ros the Only Whore... yeah, I don't know either. What's your theory? The whole scene was a bit... eh. I don't even have a problem with all the gracious sex scenes, but this scene was disturbing. Joffrey is a sociopath and an evil SOB, we know it. No need for that D:

ETA: I'm not nearly finished with ASOS yet, but I spoiled myself for the Red Wedding part.

Edited at 2012-04-23 11:50 am (UTC)
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> brienne 3.0janie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2012 03:45 pm (UTC)
My Ros theory... Eeh, it's spoilery so I'll be vague, but I think they could be giving her a storyline of a minor character that became major in Theon's storyline in adwd, except that it has a hole bigger than the grand canyon, so I hope I'm not right XD

I don't really care for the specifics re Jeyne as long as she's highborn. I can buy Robb liking her regardless but I just can't buy that he marries her when she's a no one and there are no other stakes at play. Mostly because he already gets the 'omg he's such an idiot and he sucks at politics' rep when the problem is that he's his dad's kid, not that he's an idiot. Lol sorry I'm defensive XDD ;)
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the female ghost of tom joadjanie_tangerine on April 24th, 2012 09:56 am (UTC)
Eeeh, they're rushing it too much. I mean, I'm following it because I read the book and I know the entire background but I can see why it would be confusing. :/
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Zelda: GoT - House Starkzelda_zee on April 23rd, 2012 02:56 pm (UTC)
Agreed about Jeyne/the girl from Volantis. If it wasn't Jeyne that scene doesn't make sense, but if it was her it doesn't make sense either. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

For some reason the thing that bothered me was Tywin showing up at Harrenhal and grabbing Arya for his cupbearer. It looks like they are going to skip the part where she was Weasel, and she was Roose Bolton's cupbearer, not Tywin's. Mostly I try not to mind the changes from the book but that one annoyed me.

Okay, what do you mean by #2? My memory of what happened in the book is absent and I can't remember what happened & why you wouldn't like how they presented that in the show.

I love Caitlyn too. She was always one of my favorites.

I love Margaery Tyrell! The actor playing her is awesome. Also, beautiful. Wow, she slays me with how pretty she is.

I actually thought Joff was going to make the one whore fuck the other one with his staff so it was a relief that she was only supposed to beat her. They could have done w/out that scene though - considering how they're having to rush to get the story told, I wish they wouldn't waste time on unnecessary stuff.

That said, the kid playing Joffrey continues to impress me with how good he is at playing evil to the core.

Iain Glen is indeed too hot! His Jorah is so awesome. Oddly, I didn't find him hot at all in Downton Abbey.

This book is so complex, the storytelling on the show is really sort of convoluted. Trying to condense it so much is not doing the show any favors. I pity anyone watching who hasn't read the books. I would be completely lost!
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> robb 3.0janie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2012 04:02 pm (UTC)
If they're trying to give Jeyne more of a personality I can wait and see, but as it is I'm withholding judgment. If she's from Volantis for real and Robb marries her at random I'll get homicidal tendencies - it'd become just a suicidal move, not an honorable suicidal one :/

My issue was that like this they might imply that Cat frees Jaime because LF might have suggested it to her, not because it was her own idea. I liked it being her own idea and not LF trying to put her against Robb.

Yeah the Tywin thing bothered me too but then again the less Boltons I see the better. That said they did cast Roose so he'll have to show up at some point....

If they wanted to show us how much of a sadic Joffrey is.. Congratulations. But gosh if they have to do that at least don't always put Ros in there, I'm starting to worry that she might actually get a real storyline and I don't really like what I'm coming up with... And yes they should stop wasting time on unnecessary stuff. Like that scene. The kid playing Joffrey is excellent though.

Isn't he just? Gosh, the things I'd do to him...

Yeah I noticed that, if I hadn't read the book I'd feel lost. Especially the Stannis/Mel stuff is being too rushed, if I hadn't known her deal I'd be still like 'wtf WHO IS SHE WHY IS SHE WITH HIM.'
The Cleaverage: walking deadkel_reiley on April 23rd, 2012 06:27 pm (UTC)
1. THIS. Yes. What? I mean, we never got Robb's POV in the books, so I guess they have to make shit up for the details, but... yes. What you said.

6. LOL. I know, right?

7. My thoughts EXACTLY! From now on, shows are going to lost points for showing childbirth. Of any kind.

13. What? WHAT? TELL MEEEEEEE!!!

14. Dany seems to have dialed back the crazy just a touch this season... I'm sure she'll go nuts soon.

15. Fewer gratuitous whore scenes would be good, HBO, thanks.
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> theonjanie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2012 07:00 pm (UTC)
1. That. But from what he said he met her when he conquered her castle but she's apparently this oh so very lovely gentle thing, not a sassy pro nursemaid XD that said since she didn't have much of a personality I get why they'd try to spice it up.I just need her to be JEYNE WESTERLING, not who-knows-the-name from Volantis.

6. Sigh. Cat, you should have done that.

7. THIS THIS THIS. And think that she has to birth another shadow at some point! Siiiighhhh.

13. Okay, so.


ADWD SPOILERS



Point is: Jeyne Poole is MIA. Or better: Jeyne Poole is nowhere to be seen. Other point: D&D apparently are head over heels in love with Theon as a character, so there's no way they're going to change the ADWD plotline too much - especially since they have an actor that can pull that off (or well, imo he'd do it, but that said). Now, not going over all the Robb & Theon paralles since both of them end up dealing with women named Jeyne except that for Robb it's DOOM AND GLOOM while Theon gets his sort of redemption moment thanks to it, the point is: it's not like Jeyne Poole has a point outside Theon's story, but she's a funamental part of it - mostly because he saves her risking his life and doing a selfless thing when the emotional connection he had with her prior to the whole Ramsay thing wasn't that much, but they still did know each other. (Meaning: he didn't save a complete stranger.) Now: what was Jeyne Poole doing throughout ACOK and ASOS? She was in one of LF's brothels with LF 'training' her. And she wasn't having the time of her life in KL after leaving North. But there's no freaking Jeyne Poole anywhere.

Crackpot theory: they're giving her story to Ros. I mean, she did have a sort of connection with Theon even if it was just sex - though considering that he was pretty pissed when she left for KL I guess that at least she was his favorite. She's Northern. She's being shown in a brothel all the time (well, obviously since she's a prostitute, but), that belongs to LF, and she's been thoroughly humiliated by the latter in what, episode two, and now apparently she's being sent to all the worst clients they can find for her (Joffrey). The Grand Canyon sized hole in this is that if they had shipped Jeyne up North so that she could pose as Arya, Ros couldn't pass off for Arya in a million years - and not even for Sansa for that matter, but they could drop her plotline and maybe Tywin or whoever decides to send Ramsay some whore in thanks for the help and they send her skipping on the entire wedding business. That said this is seriously crackpot and I don't want it to happen, not even paid, because if it becomes Theon & Ros instead of Theon & Jeyne Poole it loses half of the poignant, not to mention that giving Jeyne's part to Ros would be a total suicide imo. But if Ros had no fucking point whatsever other than having sex with everyone and their siblings, then why would they be showing her every ten seconds? She's been getting too much screen time for her to be there only for sexposition. Another friend of mine says she might get Alalaya's part (or how the hell was her name spelled), which is another good point, but if she is then what they do with Theon in season five or whenever they're doing it, he saves Mance heroically while Mance sings him a song in thanks as they fall down? XD

15. Or at least have them with Alfie Allen getting naked. *cough* yeah, yeah, I could watch an entire show of AA getting naked without any other point, but.
The Cleaveragekel_reiley on April 23rd, 2012 07:29 pm (UTC)
1. Yeah. Though a big part of her... personality was that she was all meek and kind. I dunno. I was very o_O during that scene.

7. Hopefully they won't have to show it again b/c hey we already know what that is now!

13. Oooooh, I see where you're going with this. I don't recall if they mentioned Jeyne Poole much last season either... but I think your theory is actually very sound and highly likely. Crap. Though I feel sort of bad saying that all the whores look pretty much the same to me, so I hadn't actually noticed it was Ros in all those scenes! But she's WAY too old to pose as Arya. I mean Jeyne was only just Sansa's age, so that's at least plausible... I don't like that either, if that's where they're going with this :(
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> robb/theon 4.0janie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2012 08:19 pm (UTC)
I get that you can't carry on for long with a character that is only gentle and meek and eager, even though I liked her being like that. :/ Idk my only major quibble would be if they don't make her highborn and they go for the doomed love story where he marries a lowborn girl, but seriously, Robb isn't a total idiot and I can get that he'd marry her for honor reasons, but not for OMG I'M IN LOVE WITH YOU reasons. He's NED'S son dammit, if he fucks himself over it has to be for honor.. ;)

In last season Jeyne Poole wasn't there at all :((( I'm not really sure that I want that either, mostly because... well, the entire point of Theon's selfless act in ADWD is that he knew Jeyne but never really cared about her either way and he certainly didn't have a history with her, so he wasn't saving his old flame or his old love or even his old favorite prostitute. :| Seriously, I don't go anywhere near shipping Theon/Jeyne P. as a romantic thing because THE BAGGAGE, but as a platonic thing is kind of really lovely and if Jeyne becomes Ros then it gets all cheapened since if anything they had been having sex and a whole lot of it. Meh, it's that Theon's part in ADWD is kind of my favorite thing about the entire series except for the Jaime & Brienne stuff (single & solo) and I might go ballistic if they do it wrong. ;)
The Cleaveragekel_reiley on April 23rd, 2012 08:23 pm (UTC)
I don't even like Theon, but I agree.
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> ashajanie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2012 08:30 pm (UTC)
Lol well he's hard to like ;) nah seriously, I just - Ros, stop making me paranoid. Don't make me worry that you'll cheapen the only grand gesture the poor guy has >___>
falafel_musings: thrones 2falafel_musings on April 23rd, 2012 09:22 pm (UTC)
Knowing that she's not a book character I'm getting tired of Ros the ubiquitous sexposition whore too. She seems to have links with more main characters than anyone else in the story (Tyrion, Theon, Jon, Littlefinger, Pycelle, now Joffrey). It's annoying when more interesting significant characters (ie, Sansa) are getting sidelined. I missed Theon in this episode too.

The scenes with Cat and Tyrion/Lancel were my favourite moments this week. I still love the Arya, Hotpie and Gendry story but I'm not going to sleep well thinking about that rat and bucket thing. *shudders* The shadow baby just weirded me out. So is Renly done for then?
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> brienne 3.0janie_tangerine on April 23rd, 2012 09:45 pm (UTC)
Preach. I'm seriously afraid that all the Ros we're getting means that she's about to take over a plotline from a sort of major-in-book-five book character that didn't appear in the show (or possibly another minor one in book two which would have less disastrous consequences), but even if she doesn't.. seriously, at this point she knows enough about everyone, she could be happily try to get on the iron throne and she'd probably win it. :/// And yeah I totally missed Theon too. Ugh, my poor flawed perfect man. ;__;

My favorites were same as yours. And ugh yeah the gore was strong in this round *vomit* the shadow baby was.. yeah. Weird is being nice, but then again. ;) Aaaand yeah. Renly isn't long for this world, afraid to say.
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the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> tyrionjanie_tangerine on April 24th, 2012 09:40 am (UTC)
Ikr? He's too good.

Aaand yeah that. She has to be Jeyne in disguise, I can't accept other options. Just.. No.
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brokentoybrokentoy on April 24th, 2012 12:57 am (UTC)
I kept waiting for the squeaky scenes all throughout the episode and there we arrive at Mel giving birth and I thought: waiiiit a moment, am I supposed to think that's creepy?
Now I think I'm the only one who wasn't freaked out about it ^^ But, is it me remembering things backwards or wasn't she supposed to stand up while giving birth? That added to the creepy factor for me in the book, but I might be remembering wrong.

Also, completely with you about Harrnhaal. It was FLAWLESS. And I thought the same about the scene of Davos and Meg; it's a little detail but I thought them approaching with the little boat was well played re the book.

And Stannis? I don't particularly like him but yes, his claim is rightful and yes, Renly doesn't have much of a right to reach for the throne so I'm with you there too.

finally: THAT CLOAK FOR SANSA??? It was done so subtly and without really focusing on it and it was PERFECTION. Sansa is perfect, flawless and she's got real class, but I felt so much for her in that moment (and Sandor, of course :))

oh, let's not forget that I drooled watching Ser Jorah under the desert sun. Let it be on record, I had unhealthy thoughts.


aaaand that's all :)
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> sandorjanie_tangerine on April 24th, 2012 09:50 am (UTC)
More than squeaky I found that scene just outright disgusting XDDD but labor in general makes me go like DNWDNW ;) and yeah I think she was supposed to stand, but I don't remember the fine details. *cough*

Meh, I can't really go for Renly re the claim. Also it just irks me that he's totally a dick to his brother, who might not be likable but ffs he got the short stick from Robert for all his life already without getting any thanks for it. And that said the only reason I want Stannis to get it is that he doesn't want it because he's power hungry, lol.

WORD RE SANSA. EVERYTHING.

I think that any woman with some heterosexuality in her would drool after Jorah ;) ;) when he's starving and sunburnt he's just so delicious, isn't he? XD
elliotsmelliot: GoT Catelliotsmelliot on April 24th, 2012 03:19 pm (UTC)
2. Only other thing that I didn't like: LF telling Cat that she could trade her daughters for Jaime. Who read the book knows what I'm talking about.

3. Wait, also Brienne had no lines. Sigh. More, please.

4. Catelyn is flawless. End of story. Gosh when she saw Ned's bones ;__; Michelle Fairley, how so good? Also I'd have liked if she had put that dagger in LF's throat *cough* but eeeh.


Yes to all of this! (And everything else from your Arya to Joarh comments too!) I am disappointed they had LF suggest to Cat about the trade, because in the book it was all her idea, right? Cat does not need LF to be awesome! Overall this episode felt like filler. Hopefully next week we'll get more Brienne and Cat, and maybe even some Jaime.

So that was Jeyne. Meh.
the female ghost of tom joad: asoiaf >> brienne 3.0janie_tangerine on April 24th, 2012 03:34 pm (UTC)
It's sort of nice that Jorah being sexy is pretty much the one thing everyone agrees about ;) then again, facts are facts...

That said yeah, in the book it was all Cat when she decided to send Jaime and Brienne on the road trip, and mainly I don't like the LF suggesting her thing because it seems like he's trying to put her against Robb and.. Ugh, I don't approve at all. She can be awesome on her own indeed!

And yes it felt like filler even if they tried to pack a lot into it.. Then again if next week Mel's shadow baby kills we-know-who then at least we get Cat and Bri screentime which it's totally good with me. ;)

I withhold judgment on Jeyne until I see the entire thing and I get what they're doing with it. *taps foot*