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31 March 2013 @ 12:13 pm
happy easter! and I'm talking SPN! and vampire porn! and other things.  
1 . Happy Easter everyone! :D I hope you’re all hoarding the chocolate I’m not ;) aaand happy GOT day to everyone who actually watches it today – may you all survive it.

2. So, since (as usual) I haven’t updated as much as I thought I would, run-down of what’s been happening here: I solved one problem I was having for the last final I was supposed to have, so it’s three left now and then it’s just the thesis (which hopefully will make me enthusiastic again about this whole school deal because right now I’m just burned out) \o/ also, I thought the elections mess couldn’t get any worse, but apparently it is! And we might vote again this year! And I can bet you money I won’t like the result, since my last illusions that people vote with their heads in this country has been totally shattered. Anyway, welcome to the only country in the world where you stay in charge even if you lose the elections and when I can’t even be pissed about it because the alternatives are all worse. Oh, and B. wants to be President of the Republic. If you’re laughing at that, it’s exactly what you should do.

Also, Mumford and Sons were glorious :DDD which is pretty much the best thing that happened in the last month.

Meanwhile, I’m currently at my grandparents’ for the holidays, using the internet stealthily and wondering if my grandmother will ever understand that no one ever said that it’s your duty to make your own life miserable.

3. Also, since I’m set on getting back on track and starting doing episode reviews again from next week (at least for GOT and SPN, since I’m not sure I have enough shit to say about the vampire porn to do an entire post each episode) I’m catching up with some quick reactions to the last stuff here, so next week I can start anew. ;)

So, vampire porn: so, uuuuhm, the thing is, I have no fucking clue what they’re trying to accomplish this season but there are some things I know for sure:

a) soulless!Elena has to go now. I could stand Sam being soulless for three episodes on SPN before wanting to strangle him, but she hasn’t lasted even that long. Just. NO. Nina is awesome at it but no. I can’t do it. I actually love Elena but like this I just want to slap her in the face forever.

b) no one in this show deserves current!Damon except maybe his brother, and when I start considering shipping Damon/Stefan… well, no, there’s like one time each year when it happens, but still.

c) other than Damon, the best thing right now is Matt who clearly has been MIA since Jeremy died – which I still don’t get if I like it or not.

d) but I know that Shane made me miss Alaric every-fucking-second.

e) Alaric’s ghost is there stalking Damon and wishing he could get drunk even if he’s dead because you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of people who are behaving with some sense (SERIOUSLY BONNIE WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU EVEN DOING).

f) Someone please just let poor Rebekah be human. Also since when Katherine is mad in love with Elijah? Wasn’t she in love with Stefan? Anyway, Elijah is still my favorite thing about the originals. Also I wish I was more invested so I could actually have opinions about Klaus and Caroline but the only opinion I have is that obviously Jeremy Carver and Julie Plec brainstormed seasons together because the last episode the Klaus/Caroline thing had too much in common with Dean and Cas in 8x17 xDD

g) However, my favorite episode this season after the second is without doubt the one where Damon and Lexi hooked up in the seventies and there were Patti Smith cover bands. The end. Show, please, I never asked plot from you, but ffs please Elena turn that switch back on.

SPN: did I say last time that this show hasn’t been this consistently good since S5? Because it totally hasn’t. Carver please love me. Sadly I missed discussing shit for like months, but anyway: I love the men of letters thing (and OHMYGOD HENRY WINCHESTER <33), I like that they finally have a home base – btw, I cried at the episode where Dean got his own room, call me a sap. I also like that this is the first year since S5 where filler episodes don’t make me want to fall asleep on my own keyboard – even if they’re filler, they’re surprisingly good. And it’s obvious that someone is at least trying to work with some continuity here, trying being the key word, but since I had the distinct impression that 50% of S6/7 was planned at completely fucking random this is already good enough for me. I also have the distinct impression that Carver is trying to straighten kinks out from the previous run – starting from Castiel – , but this’d imply discussing spoilers for the next episode so I’m gonna shut up until next week. Anyway, stuff that I’d like to put my two cents on just so that I have them somewhere:

a) there’s nothing not flawless about Dean’s characterization this year. I haven’t been so madly in love with Dean Winchester since ages. I lovelovelove that after he got out of Purgatory he actually… I don’t want to say grew up, but he’s really coming into himself and he’s miles ahead from S6/7 in terms of character development so can I just draw hearts everywhere? I love that he actually asks Cas to talk about his feelings, that he’s getting his own space, that he actually understood that you don’t always have to kill monsters and that he’s letting himself be a total geek and EVERYTHING, all right. I also like his vampire bff and I really hope that they a) reconnect, b) that it doesn’t end badly. Not that I’m crazy about Benny the way I was about poor dear Balthazar, but these people need friends, all right?

b) same about Sam – he’s not coming into himself because he never was as emotionally stunted as his brother but I like that he knows what he wants and that he has plans for the light at the end of the tunnel and that he might start the men of letters thing again because that’s just so perfect for him ;_;

c) I thought I hated Zachariah when he was around. I can safely say that I detest Naomi a lot more xDDD interesting character, nothing to say, but at the opening of 8x17 I think I might have thrown up in my mouth and – I can’t, okay. Nope. Is it possible that when you think that nothing can get worse with angels then IT GETS WORSE? Like, you thought Zachariah was bad but Michael was worse, but then Raphael was worse than Michael and NOW NAOMI JUST – can’t.

d) Before going all capslock about what everyone suspects, two words about the Meg and Cas thing in 8x17, since I’ve spent the last two weeks trying to avoid wank on tumblr and wondering how the heck people think that since it was made *canon* then Dean/Cas is a sank ship (seriously). First: I always thought that this Meg-and-Cas-hook-up thing was OOC from the first moment it happened in 6x10, and I suspect that it happened just because Sera Gamble thought that the demon/angel thing was a good idea, but it made no fucking sense then and it makes no sense now (and same re S7, but I actually could get behind it better in S7 – anyway, not the point). That said, it happened and they actually made out, so I don’t get why people complain that they’re canon *now* - they’ve been canon since then if we stick to saying that if you make out on screen with someone you’re somewhat canon. So: they decided to kill Meg off and Cas was in the episode – they had to address it or it’d have been a glaring continuity error. I’m not entirely sure I get the reasoning behind Meg dying that way or the whole Cas is her unicorn thing (srsly?) – like, with enough meta explaining it to me I suppose I can see it, but I shouldn’t need meta to see it, but as stated I thought the entire thing was OOC from the beginning so if it ends OOC then who even cares. Also: it took Cas a while to get that Meg wanted to do the deed with him and he didn’t even accept – and tbh if they want to state that he can/could/would want to have sex with someone and that he thinks that making out with her was a nice thing but it’s done with now, then fine, okay, I can roll with it. Considering what happened ten minutes later I really, really do not get how it sinks the D/C ships – like, sorry, Dean can have female love interests but be into Cas no problem but Cas can’t be attracted to other women while being into Dean more than he’s into anything else? Come on.

e) Now that we got here: crypt scene. Seriously. Like. Uhm. So. Cas spent who knows how much time killing Dean enough times to fill an entire warehouse until he looked like some kind of robot while doing it and HE STILL COULDN’T DO IT. ACTUALLY HE OPPOSED IT THAT MUCH THAT NAOMI ENDED UP GIVING HIM THE CHOICE TO DO IT AND HE STILL COULD-NOT-DO-IT. How is this ship sinking? No, seriously. Also: I NEED YOU? Like, okay, sure, totally not begging for my life, just saying that? And we want to talk about Dean clutching to Cas’s coat/wrist even when he thought Cas was going to kill him? (Let’s not get into how Cas touched Dean at the end… haha. Yeah. Sure. How does anyone not think that Dean isn’t the most important thing for Cas ever is past me.) And Cas’s face at the end? I just – those two. SERIOUSLY. Though Cas being like ‘I don’t know what broke the connection’… yeah, sure, I’m pretty positive that everyone in front of the tv was shouting ‘*DEAN*, YOU IDIOT’, which – seriously. I don’t want to get into the-power-of-love meta territory because this is getting cheesy enough, but I can’t even with my feelings. Also, if Cas has to protect the darned tablet from Dean it means that if Sam can close Hell’s gates then Dean can close Heaven’s and that’s actually half the reason Naomi wants him dead? I mean, I’m pretty sure that she had Cas practicing killing Dean because it was what would destroy him most on every level, but she probably also needs *Dean* dead, so she was killing two birds with one stone? Damn, I want to cry just thinking about it, sigh.

Also, the exclusively shipper angle: okay, so. I don’t usually ever put any cents into anything I ship becoming canon unless it’s HBO because the (slash) stuff I ship is never possible-canon material. Except that the last time I got the vibes I’m getting from Dean/Cas right now… it was Jane and Joanie in Deadwood, and everyone who saw it knows how it ended. Okay, no, I had it from Jimmy and Richard in Boardwalk Empire too but ER YOU KNOW WHAT if you’ve seen it, but I still think that if they hadn’t done that thing it might have happened, but whatever. Point is, first we get that Purgatory scene which – uhm, yeah, I showed it to a friend who quit the show in S7 and she was like ‘jesus are they hooking up or what’ –, then Dean actually wants to talk about his feelings and shit and he actually treats Cas the way he probably regrets he hadn’t during S6, THEN Cas gets tortured/brainwashed with killing Dean a thousand times over and then he still doesn’t do it when Dean is like clutching at his hands while saying that he needs him? And other than that, most filler episodes in this season featured a human/supernatural romance (or supernatural/supernatural, but anyway not a human/human one) where the supernatural part is under someone’s control and does bad things against their will? Oh, and Misha is a regular next season? I mean, I don’t want to say it’s a sure thing and this might all be looking too much into it, but that writing is so blatant that I can’t help thinking that they’re at least considering it and making sure they can go there if they want to. (Not to mention that apparently in 8x17 it was supposed to be I love you, but I think that the need you was best in those circumstances, so. Still.) Not to mention that the showrunner is the person who wrote a) Free to be You and Me and b) Point of No Return, which was the feast of Dean/Cas innuendo, so… I mean, if it still had been Sera I’d have never even considered it, but right now I might be? Just, I don’t want to look like a deluded shipper and I won’t feel betrayed if it doesn’t happen – I never shipped D/C because I thought it’d be canon one day – but I’m really starting to suspect it could happen. And that said, I really want to see what happens if/when Dean meets Naomi. I don’t see it going down well.

This is probably not even half of what I’d have discussed if I had had fucking time in the last four months or so, but everything else that comes to mind right now isn’t important enough or has been discussed to death, so I’ll just leave here the above (which are the things I want written down anyway). Did I say I’m loving this season? Because I am. <3 ah, no wait, actually: please let me have Crowley forever. The end.

4. Since we were discussing tv: I’m going to (try to) do GOT recap posts this year DECENTLY, also because I promised lenina20 that I would warn her beforehand (<3). I’m not sure of when I’ll manage to watch the premiere because here the internet is random and I can’t be on it if anyone calls on the phone, which means that it’s gonna take me ages to download it, but at worst it should be tomorrow evening, so the review will happen either late tomorrow or early on the 2nd, unless I manage to watch it in the morning for some kind of miracle. That said: I’m pretty sure that everyone around here knows the deal, but since I spent the last month blocking idiots on tumblr arguing that Theon deserves horrible things, I’ll just state again that Theon bashing is nowhere near okay around these parts. Also, I’ll probably endlessly complain about Robb’s storyline this year because the few things I know aren’t making me happy, so uhm, just thread carefully because I’ll probably go heavy on that. xD

5. Also: anyone has switched to the new friends page? Is it as horrible as it seems from the description? Because I already miss the old update page, and since it hasn’t forces me to switch to the new friends page yet I’m delaying, but I’d like to hear some opinions before considering it. Not sure I’ll do it until they force me though.

6. And after this Easter novel, I should probably go get ready for lunch (and after that hopefully I’ll finish an 8x17 coda which has been nagging at me since I watched the damn thing but that I couldn’t start until yesterday…) Again, I hope you’re all drowning in chocolate :D (and expect some late comments because as stated since anytime someone calls on the landline I have to disconnect the internet I gave up on checking the friends page, but tomorrow I shall catch up. :D)
feeling: boredbored
cassiopeia7: Dean: hot and gorgeouscassiopeia7 on March 31st, 2013 01:30 pm (UTC)
Hey, bb! Happy Easter! Easter chocolate is being eaten even as I type. ;)

three left now and then it’s just the thesis (which hopefully will make me enthusiastic again about this whole school deal because right now I’m just burned out)

So once you get the Masters, are you going to go for the doctorate too, or is it too soon to ask? (Also, I'm really curious as to what your thesis will be about. Feel free to PM or e-mail.)

we might vote again this year! And I can bet you money I won’t like the result, since my last illusions that people vote with their heads in this country has been totally shattered.

Oh, bb, come to America, where people never, EVER vote with their heads. For me, that illusion was shattered before I was even old enough to vote. What's going on over there? The major news coming out of Italy over the past month or so has been about the new Pope. I haven't heard the "B" word in the news for some time now . . .

Anyway, welcome to the only country in the world where you stay in charge even if you lose the elections

LOL, you. Over here you "win" the Presidential election even if you've technically lost. Or win the re-election, even though you've displayed blatant idiocy several times. *cough*

B. wants to be President of the Republic.

The next Julius Caesar? Nah, Berlusconi is much more suited to be the next Caligula, don'tcha think? Or perhaps the next Emperor Palpatine. XD
But seriously, how on earth is he still eligible to run for ANYTHING? Shouldn't he be in prison by now?
the female ghost of tom joad: EPIC FAILjanie_tangerine on March 31st, 2013 09:05 pm (UTC)
Yay for chocolate! :DDDDD

If I'm going for the doctorate is definitely not going to be where I am now - I'm so thoroughly sick of my specific uni and its office and almost everything else, I can't take the idea of another two years in there X_X I was planning to see if I could find some sort of decent job and if I can't I was going to try for a doctorate elsewhere. possibly also not in Italy xDD (Also it's not exactly defined, but it should be about the influence of some specific Latin poets on Kant's philosophy :D I'll be happy to give details when I actually straightened it out! :D)

I think I still was holding to some tendril of illusion when I voted first, but after the FOURTH time people actually voted for B. (this time he came in second, but he was starting from NO FUCKING VOTES, so..) I think it's gone altogether. Also the Pope is a lot better than our politics - TALKS THE RESIDENT ATHEIST. anyway, have a run-down ;) So:

a) the current government is the one they put in place after B. was forced to resign in 2011 - it wasn't voted and it's very right wing and their current policy is LET'S JUST CUT WAGES FOR EVERYONE EXCEPT RICH PEOPLE. The guy at the head ran in the election - he lost pretty badly.
b) The left-ish party that I voted for won, but the margin wasn't large enough at the Senate. The second party is B.'s. The third is.. well, a bunch of people led by a former comedian (srsly) whose only slogan is ALL POLITICIANS ARE BAD AND DISGUSTING YOU HAVE TO GO HOMEEEE NOW. And they want to be at the government because while they came third they're the only ones not in a coalition, so even if they have some parts of the program in common with the left-ish party they won't support it, so basically there's no majority.
c) We can't even do the new elections because the current president of the Republic can't do anything as his term is over like next month.

Conclusion: after the left-ish party candidate failed to find a majority, the president of the Republic - who's pretty much the only person in power right now who can do something went and said good, you keep the old government led by the dude who lost the elections and meanwhile a handful of people working in two commissions is going to come up with a few urgent reforms and by the time they're done you'll all have settled enough to hopefully VOTE on said reforms and then my term will be over and it's going to be my successor's problem. oh, and we're probably vote in October, and since left-ish party came out of this badly and the idiots in the POLITICIANS GO AWAY party are... well, making people regret they voted them, I can bet you money that unless someone arrests/condemns B. in the last grade of ANY of his trials first, he's gonna win. There you go. D:

I'm starting to suspect that he IS Palpatine, tbqj. Also: in ANY other country in this planet he'd be in jail already. BUT, here in order to go to jail/being unable to run, you need to be condemned in the last grade of the trial. there are three. AND EVERY TIME UNTIL NOW HE'S MANAGED TO AVOID IT by either paying off judges or drawing it on so that it goes into prescription. :/ I swear I can't anymore.
cassiopeia7: Dean: hot and gorgeouscassiopeia7 on March 31st, 2013 01:32 pm (UTC)
(Reply Part The Second, because LJ is being an ass about character count.)

there’s nothing not flawless about Dean’s characterization this year. I haven’t been so madly in love with Dean Winchester since ages. I lovelovelove that after he got out of Purgatory he actually… I don’t want to say grew up, but he’s really coming into himself . . . . same about Sam – he’s not coming into himself because he never was as emotionally stunted as his brother but I like that he knows what he wants and that he has plans for the light at the end of the tunnel and that he might start the men of letters thing again

100% with you on the growth of Dean and contentment of Sam. Over the past half-dozen episodes, Dean -- nesting!Dean, OMG -- has positively bloomed and I utterly love him. Sam is a born researcher and I have no doubt that he'll start up MoL again. Dean will do anything to keep Sam safe, and Sam will do anything to drag Dean into the safe-zone alongside himself. Really, how long has it been since we've had brotherly interaction like this? (I still have issues with the guys blithely murdering the poor souls unfortunate enough to be demon-possessed -- does no one bother with exorcisms any more? -- but that's another story for another day.)

when you think that nothing can get worse with angels then IT GETS WORSE?

I want to believe that it can't get any worse than Naomi, but Show would probably prove me wrong within a couple of episodes. I remain amazed that the angels have the nerve to put down demons. Like the crap they're doing is any better. (It also amuses me that angels have never been what they seemed at first glance, going all the way back to the "angel" in 'Houses of the Holy.' That's got to be intentional on Show's part. In any case, angel business has been untrustworthy since Zachariah and Uriel showed up.)

I really want to see what happens if/when Dean meets Naomi. I don’t see it going down well.

If Show doesn't put those two in a room together, I'm going to be very disappointed indeed. Dean knows her name now. He's resourceful, and he's got both Sam's research mojo and the MoL library in his corner, so I have little doubt that he will find her and there will be a showdown. (Plus, Dean actually took down Zachariah, so my money's on the Winchester half of the equation.) ;)

I love ya, bb, but I just don't see D/C ever going canon. There is friendship there, yes, and there's been some interesting subtext this season, but there are also massive trust issues between those two. That Castiel resisted killing Dean (after having no such qualms about killing Balthazar, his best friend for MILLENNIA) was a point in his favor . . . but then he turns around to say that he doesn't trust Dean with the angel tablet before disappearing with it. (By then he wasn't being controlled by Naomi, so we can't blame her this time.) Making off with the table is not exactly behavior conducive to getting Dean to trust him again, certainly not to the level of trust they had in S4. And there have been a LOT of betrayals since 4.01.

let me have Crowley forever. The end.

THIS. Whatever Crowley is, he's more than a mere demon, and I cannot wait for the big reveal. (Assuming Show doesn't drop the ball, that is.)

Looking forward to reading your 8.17 coda!
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural balthazarjanie_tangerine on March 31st, 2013 09:17 pm (UTC)
Ikr? I love the S&D time we had this year. CHARACTERIZATION DONE WELL! WE STOPPED REHASHING S1 AND S2! DEAN IS NESTING! Dean is thriving! Sam is born to be a MOL! I can't be happier with them. Also ahahahhahaahha YOU'RE SO RIGHT ABOUT THAT, but seems to me like they've stopped giving a shit sometime around S3 =_= did they forget their Latin or what?

... I don't even want to think of what could be worse than Naomi. Like, demons are perfect gentlemen in comparison to these people, at least THEY'RE FUCKING STRAIGHT ABOUT DOING EVIL SHIT and they don't pretend they're right doing it. Like. seriously. What. or at least angels in high places (Gabriel being the exception obviously). Sigh. Can we have Balthazar back so we can have some faith in the species again? ;)

I think Dean is going to go creative lengths to make her suffer. ;) ;) seriously, at least Zachariah hadn't fucked with Cas like THAT XDDD

Mmmhhh. See, I don't buy it 100% either - I mean, I generally don't buy anything I ship going canon because it doesn't, but the subtext this year has been off the fucking charts. Like, if you asked me last season I'd have told you that it was never going to happen, but this year between them actually being friends, Dean actually asking questions before shooting and Cas - well, you said it, he killed Balthazar and HE COULDN'T KILL DEAN... I don't think that if it happens it'd happen this season - there's too much shit they still have to go through, and also if I'm right about Dean being able to close Heaven's gates there's going to be even MORE shit going down. But still, Cas has to be around next season if Misha is a regular, and if he has to be around after what's going down now I think he's going to be either graceless or severely depowered, and at that point... well as stated I'm not sure 100% that they'll go there, but they'd have time/space to fix their trust issues/relationship also because at this point both of them are in a good position to do it, but I think they're doing things so that if they consider it for real and they want to do it, then it's going to work. As stated, the last time I've seen a season of a TV show with the subtext they're having on SPN right now, those two people ended up kissing in a bathtub in the middle of the following season... while I won't bet money on it happening (and definitely not this season) I'd definitely would not be surprised if they went there. If it makes sense.

Well, if Crowley was in Mesopotamia with Naomi centuries ago and Mark Sheppard told someone on Twitter that they should consider Crowley's backstory being bullshit... I vote for fallen angel, but as someone noted in that scene in 8x17 you didn't hear Naomi's wings when she disappeared so I'D REALLY LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THE TWO OF THEM ARE THANKS ;)

Hopefully I'll be done by tomorrow WHEN I ACTUALLY HAVE REAL INTERNET ;)
i feel the madness creeping in: SPN_angel-on-shoulderaadarshinah on March 31st, 2013 01:52 pm (UTC)
II've got to disagree with you about Henry Winchester (I hated him and his entire episode), but everything else is 100% spot-on agreement!squee. I mean, it's getting to the point where it's like all our tumblr wish lists are coming true - Dean praying to Cas AND WE GET TO HEAR IT, and all of the innuendo and all of the parallels in almost EVERY EPISODE - and if they DON'T make it canon soon, then this is going to be the worst case of queerbaiting in the history of queerbaiting.

But I have never been more in love with this show either. It literally was the only thing keeping me going thru my boot camp adventure - the promise of new SPN on the outside. All I can say is, that it's looking more and more like Destiel will become canon, and when it does, it will be the squee heard around the world...

On another note, enjoy your easter bb and try not to space the chocolate out.
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural dean/castiel 5.0janie_tangerine on March 31st, 2013 09:21 pm (UTC)
D'aw I'll agree to disagree with you. But don't mind me, I have an unhealthy fixation for thirties/forties/fifties and idk I thought he was adorable, so I'll take him. ;) And yeah like seriously the subtext is off the damn charts and you're not talking to someone who usually puts any hope into anything becoming canon unless it's on HBO, so yeah. I'm leaning towards them going for it, though I think I can rule it out it being this season - they still have too much crap to go through and while Dean is more or less in a right place for it, I don't think Cas is yet. But the next? I can totally see it happening. :)

and like seriously this show IT'S NOT BEEN THIS GOOD IN AGES! *squees*

thanks! I sadly just got some mini chocolate eggs like two days ago and no one else seemed to be inclined to provide me with it so I'll try to make my small eggs reserve last ;)
i feel the madness creeping in: SPN_destiel3aadarshinah on March 31st, 2013 09:25 pm (UTC)
Oh, Henry himself wasn't bad, it was the whole episode. It could have been written much, much better without the over-"ape-ization" of Dean, but whatever. Agree to disagree.

Dean is definately getting to the right place for it. Cas is on the right track there, so I kind of home the Season Finale will give us some indication about it either way.

the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural dean/cas have a little faitjanie_tangerine on March 31st, 2013 09:40 pm (UTC)
That episode had writing/characterization issues for sure, and Dean could have totally been done better (like I probably facepalmed at his attitude for half of it), but that was a part I actually wanted to meta about that I forgot about how they dealt with John in there which made me really like the episode as a whole (basically: I thought that it was a lot fairer regarding John and his parenting than most of S5/6/7 had, which I had gathered was an unpopular opinion when it aired and I totally forgot to actually expand on it but whatever, I'll have other occasions ;) ), but it'd probably make me go overboard xD but hey the world is nice because we're all different y/y? ;)

Yeah that. Cas needs to get over feeling like he deserved to rot forever in Purgatory (which I don't think is happening rn) and the whole shebang that went down in 8x17 is going to need further resolving so I highly doubt that it's happening this year, but I think mid/late S9 could be done. But even if they go for it in S10 I'm totally good with it - as long as they keep on giving us THIS and keeping up the good writing, I'm pretty cool with waiting as much as they think is necessary ;) *SQUEE GROUP FTW*
i feel the madness creeping in: SPN_destiel2aadarshinah on March 31st, 2013 09:50 pm (UTC)
exactly. providing the quality of writing keeps up, I've no problems with Dean/Cas being put off until S9/S10 - as long as it happens.

And it was the characterization that totally got me too, though I've got to say that, while I can understand Dean's defense of John, John is 75% not deserving of it. Yes, he did the best he could, but sometimes that's not good enough. I loved the premise, though, and I think another writer could have done an excellent job with it. It's the only episode this season I've had real issue with.

Though, to be fair, Cas hasn't had TIME to come to terms with Purgatory and his actions that led him there. The moment he got out, he was under Naomi's thumb. But give him a good half-season of screen time and some time around the Winchesters, who are of decidedly the opposite opinion, and he'll come round.

And, hopefully, they'll both be in the right place for a relationship before too much longer and our squee will be realized at last. And it will be an epic squee, which will be written in the annals of history as without peer.
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural dean/cas the rapturejanie_tangerine on March 31st, 2013 10:03 pm (UTC)
Same. I mean, if they think that in order to do it in the best possible way they have to wait until S10 BUT they give us what we got in S8 for now then I'm totally willing to wait - why should they rush if they actually have good plans? I'm inclined to trust them.

I think Dean came off as too defensive and like he didn't even bother to see Henry's point, and I don't like that, but the thing is.. okay, I'll try not to write a novel ;) I think that John was a bad father and that he did the best he could which was definitely good enough and he caused a lot of damage, but I don't think he did that with the intent of being a bad father or that he didn't love Sam or Dean, which... well, the way the show had been discussing John in the last three seasons it seemed to me like they were implying that he was a bad parent *and* that he never gave a shit about either, which in light of the fact that John gave up his precious revenge (which a lot of people seem to think that he always put first) to save Dean's life is.. at least objectionable to me, not to mention a lot of other things but as stated I'd like to stay into the character limits. XD And 8x12 was like the first episode in three seasons where SOMEONE pointed out that John wasn't being a bad parent because he was a bad person, if it makes sense? I also thought that Dean at least seemed to have gone from S1 aka 'DAD CAN'T DO NO WRONG' to 'Dad did wrong/fucked us up but he didn't do that because he genuinely didn't give a shit'. On retrospective it could have done a lot better and Dean's characterization still had issues, but let's say I appreciated the effort. xD ;)

Nah I don't think he's had the necessary time either, which is 90% of the reason why I think it's too soon for any kind of romance - first he gets out of Purgatory in that mindset after that crazy stunt, then Naomi and then YAY ROMANCE? I think he needs some time with the Winchesters and some time on his own to actually come around before going into romantic relationships. (or better, if I were writing fic I wouldn't really have a problem with it, but let's be realistic XD) ;)

I LIKE THAT LAST SENTENCE. Exactly. I'm trusting them to lead us to the place of squee so that when it happens it's going to be truly epic and lasting and we're going to treasure it forever and ever <3 (and when Dean FINALLY says I love you, it's going to be a lot better than it'd have been if he said it last week - in retrospective I can see why they cut it, if he had to say it later it wouldn't have had the same impact ;) ;) )
i feel the madness creeping in: SPN_destiel1aadarshinah on March 31st, 2013 10:09 pm (UTC)
Exactly. As long as it happens, I'm happy with whatever timeline they choose. (Though, of course, I'd prefer sooner rather than later).

Exactly. There's a quote about Richard I of England that basically says, "He was a bad son, a bad husband, and a bad king, but a gallant and splended solider," that could very much be cut and pasted onto John Winchester. More or less. He was a good man, but a CARELESS father. That's probably the best word for it. He loved his sons, but he loved his wife so much that, when she died, something in him broke and he was never able to love - or show his love - in quite the same way ever again. The fear of losing his sons prevented him from showing them how much he loved them. And his desire for revenge... Well, you know.

But the episode had it's issues. That wasn't one of them though.

I'd prefer a strong and lasting relationship too rather than simple fanservice. Which is why I'm willing to wait. Cas needs to heal (and appear in like most of S9/the rest of S8) before it can really happen, but we're on the right road. Hopefully.
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural castiel > ruby btwjanie_tangerine on March 31st, 2013 10:36 pm (UTC)
I'd obviously prefer sooner too, but I won't get upset or anything if they take more time. Also I kind of think that Jeremy Carver ships it like no one's business so well if the showerunner does... ;)

Oooh that quote fits to a T! And yeah careless is the word for it - also I think you're totally spot-on in that analysis - he was too worried about losing them to show them how much he actually cared D: but I also think that it makes him a lot more complicated than a lot of people make him out to be and idk I'm probably sure that seeing a canonically FAIR portrait of the guy when it had been years since I remembered it happening probably made me a lot more forgiving towards the actual wrong in that episode ;) then again when it came out a lot of people were all being like 'the John related part was OOC re both Dean and what we know od John' and I was like 'uhm actually NO re-watch late S1 please' xD .... Sorry, I totally went on a tangent here /o\

THAT. If they did fanservice they'd hook up next time they see each other but realistically Cas isn't there and... Like, the one serious relationship Dean had until now was with Lisa and I'm pretty sure that given the circumstances of how he started it in S6 at that point HE was the one who wasn't entirely ready for it, so seriously, if I can have them both being into it at the right time then I'm not in a hurry. I've read fic since S4, I can use that for shipping-related satisfaction for another year xDDD ;)
i feel the madness creeping in: SPN_destiel3aadarshinah on March 31st, 2013 10:40 pm (UTC)
If the showrunner ships it, you know it's near-canon.

Yay! My meta abilities are back (I've been AFK - and internet - for almost two months, so I was worried I'd lost them). But thanks. John is complicated. A retired Marine, but also "emotional" enough to be utterly broken when his wife dies. A loving father, but unable to show his love. Like Castiel, he had too much heart, nearly all of which was broken by the time we see him in S1.

And you know what they say: girls tend to chose husbands like their fathers.

EXACTLY. Fanfiction will get me by until it happens.
(Deleted comment)
the female ghost of tom joad: the vampire porn HAS A PLOT Y/Yjanie_tangerine on March 31st, 2013 09:24 pm (UTC)
Well, I ended up petting kittens so it was pretty good! ;) AND YES M&S WAS OHSOVERYAMAZING, the only thing was that the venue sucked horribly but THE REST WAS DJKSFKSJDJF OUT OF THIS WORLD GOOD.

Sigh, it's not like I ever watched this show for the plot but at least it used to make some sort of sense once. I'll still watch until season fifteen because IAN'S FACE and really, in comparison to the crap he's done between Lost and the vampire porn I'll take the vampire porn at its worst every time, but yeah this season is like the feast of random and I don't get what everyone is doing or WHY they're doing it. If they don't get it straight before this season is over I'm going to be a lot less excited next year :/
morganlucas41: 503 d/c walkingmorganlucas41 on April 1st, 2013 03:11 am (UTC)
Hi Janie! It's good to see you back! Btw, are you on tumblr? I'm over there more and more these days - I miss LJ, but Tumblr is much more active these days it seems. I have the same username, if you'd like to add :)

Agreed with you on SPN S8's direction so far...on the whole I've really liked S8 a lot better than S6 or S7- neither of which I hated, but they didn't have a whole lot of direction. I think S8 has been much more cohesive and enjoyable so far.

On Meg/Cas vs. Dean/Cas...yeah, I also don't get why anyone would think it sunk the ship, especially considering what happened after. Yeah, the Meg/Cas scenes rubbed me the wrong way, and it does sort of frustrate me that a relationship like that is arguably more "canon" than Dean/Cas. I mean, Meg and Cas have had a tiny fraction of the screen time together that Dean and Cas have, and their relationship is nowhere near as developed, significant, and emotional, but because they've kissed and overtly flirted once or twice, they're considered more "canon."

I don't know if Dean/Cas is ever going to be canon or not. I go back and forth on the issue in my head all the time. My gut instinct still is that it's not, but then I look at everything they've done so far and I just think, why lay all that foundation if they're not going to follow through? Maybe, like you said, they're planning to leave it open so they can go there if they want to. At this point, it feels like they've laid so much foundation that they not only could, but SHOULD follow through on it. So I really don't know. If it never becomes canon, I won't be heartbroken or anything, but it just seems like they've teased us and gotten our hopes up a hell of a lot if they're not intending to go there.

Anyway, I'm not losing any sleep over Meg/Cas in any event. Wasn't a fan of it but I'm moving on. I'm far more interested in the amazing character development we've gotten for Dean and for Dean and Cas's relationship. So, we'll see!
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural dean/cas have a little faitjanie_tangerine on April 1st, 2013 09:05 am (UTC)
Yes I am! :D I'm going to follow you there tonight when I get back home, my granddad's computer doesn't particularly like tumblr so I'll do everything this evening ;) you can add me though if you see this first, it's janiedean :) also yeah it's more active, though I'm planning on keeping long discussions for LJ - communicating with people on tumblr gives me headaches. :/

I actually did like S6 while I thought S7 was mostly boring 90% of the time so yeah, this one in comparison is just so good. And yeah seriously while I dislike Meg/Cas on principle (also because I disliked Meg generally xD) and it makes me very frustrated that it can be considered romantically canon while D/C isn't there yet... complaining that THEY MADE IT CANON with this episode seems kind of nonsense to me :/ and that said Dean and Cas have a way more meaningful relationship anyway so I'll just forget it - it's not like Meg is resurrecting, so whatever, let the M/C shippers have a nice last scene and let's forget it. ;)

Well, as someone pointed out below they could push it on the platonic so idk Sam gets a girlfriend at the end and they go off hunting stuff together without having implied that they're *doing* it romantically but implying that they're going to spend their lives together or something, but seriously the subtext this season is off the charts. I don't want to bet money on them following through but I think they are definitely leaving that door wide open at least for now. also I totally think that they SHOULD follow through as well, but if it's never canon-canon I won't be desperate since it's not like I started being into that ship thinking it was ever gonna happen. Still, as someone on tumblr pointed out, as long as they keep on killing monsters and being badass and they don't turn it into a chick-flick, probably the majority of the casual viewers wouldn't mind it if they hooked up. So we'll see I suppose, but anyway I doubt it's happening this season in the first place - too much baggage still. ;)

Nah, me either. I'm glad that the Meg/Cas shippers got their scene, but we got SOMETHING A WHOLE LOT BETTER so why should I even bother ;)
The Cleaverage: castielkel_reiley on April 1st, 2013 03:43 am (UTC)
Man, I missed reading your thoughts on SPN :)

re: the Meg and Cas thing - I will never, ever like Meg. She killed Jo and Ellen; that's unforgiveable. But... I actually rather liked that scene between her and Cas. (Glad she's finally dead, though, and she wasn't redeemed in any way.)

Dean/Cas will never sink. Srsly, not even death could keep them apart ♥

if Cas has to protect the darned tablet from Dean it means that if Sam can close Hell’s gates then Dean can close Heaven’s and that’s actually half the reason Naomi wants him dead - this is my guess as well, and if they "close" heaven, Cas will have to choose where he stays? (on earth with Dean?)

Not to mention that apparently in 8x17 it was supposed to be I love you, - wait, what?!

If there ever is any declaration from either Dean or Cas, I think they'll keep it in the platonic/brother type of love, but they are definitely leading us there on purpose now (and I'm ok with this).

I spent ALL DAY watching Game of Thrones. ALL. DAY.
the female ghost of tom joad: supernatural future!cas 2.0janie_tangerine on April 1st, 2013 09:11 am (UTC)
I'm back! Hopefully for good!

Hahah Meg always was my least favorite female character on SPN and in the top ten general so it's not like I ever was a fan. It was a nice scene though - mostly for Cas tbh - and well since some people do ship it.. they had their scene, their ship went out nicely (I suppose), good for them, bye, moving on. I'm still not entirely sure I get the whole deal with the unicorn, but whatever, not my problem ;)

Ikr? I seriously don't get how people can think that, but whatever. Their problem. THEY'RE UNSINKABLE. ♥

Well, since Misha is a regular next season.... ;) ;)

Apparently Misha was at some con a couple of weeks ago and he said that the *I need you* line was supposed to be *I love you* but they changed it, which is half the reason why people are going crazy with the AAAAH THEY MADE MEG/CAS CANON AND DOWNPLAYED D/C but at the point they are right now it'd have been wasting that line tbh so I'm glad they changed it. Also because *if* they're heading towards the D/C lifepartners thing however they do it, it'd be a lot more meaningful if Dean says that to Cas AT SOME POINT WHEN CAS ISN'T MIND CONTROLLED. Also I don't think that if they go there they'll make us see them having sex a-la HBO but uhm seriously the subtext is strooonggg. So I suppose we'll wait and see.

Oooh that bodes well for me! ;) I'm attempting to download it right now, if no one needs the phone I might be able to watch it before I go home...
The Cleaverage: dean/caskel_reiley on April 1st, 2013 05:03 pm (UTC)
Yeah "I need you" worked much better in this context, and it's the 2nd (3rd?) time Dean has said that to him this season. It's more important right now that Cas realize that.
ciaimpala: veronica marsciaimpala on April 4th, 2013 02:13 am (UTC)
*waves hi*